Shogun Appreciation Society

[savvas]

Hi Folks,
The extended cold & rain here in Adelaide have prompted visions of getting my old 1991 Shogun Prairie Breaker Team Issue back on the road. It's the Olive Drab green & black frame - the paint on mine is unfortunately in fairly poor condition with lots of scratches & surface rust - the frame & fork have been hanging up in my bike shed for a few years. Amazingly I still have the original stem, shifters, crank & derailleurs. The brakes & seat post & seat have unfortunately gone AWOL as have the original wheels, although I do have a very nice pair I built on age-appropriate XT hubs that I can use.

So I have a few questions to put to the combined wisdom here if I may:
- can anyone tell me the seat post size? It appears to be about 26-4 or 26.6 but I don't have seat posts in these sizes to check...
- has anyone figured out the appropriate RAL designation for the Olive Drab paint? Or a powder coat equivalent?
- does anyone know where I might be able to get a new set of Shogun PBTI frame stickers from?

Many thanks,
Sam.

[rickeyv1134]

Hi, I recently bought a shogun katana, it came with a 24" front wheel and a 700c back wheel, I cannot find any other katanas with this setup, can anyone tell me anything about these, or a round-about year?
Mine is purple and white tange cro-mo tubing and the little "s" symbols on the ends of the fork tubes at the seat tube

[stevenaaus]

Like this one I guess
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/275449421918

[Kidbolt]

Hi, y’all! I just picked up a Shogun Ground Breaker. It’s got the Shimano GS200 groupset, so I believe it’s a 1990 model. It’s missing the wheels, which seem to be 700c - I tried a 26” set which was too small. Seems to be an early hybrid bike. I’m looking for info on the correct wheels, and it would be great to find a 1990 Shogun Catalog. Also had to note something interesting about this bike … the rear brake is a ubrake, but it’s mounted UNDER the seatstays - I’ve never seen that. Any help would be appreciated here in Texas!

[Stray Kiwi]

Hi all, old thread I know but I'm a first time poster on this site and I've got a men's Shogun Katana (blue) 58cm frame size, F.I.T System road bike that is gathering dust (not ridden or serviced for approx 10 years) so it's time to move it on to someone who may be interested in renovating it. It has 14 gears, drop bar, alloy rims, Frontera Bassano - Gel Comfort Seat, EXAGE 300EX Deraileur, Templite Ultra Tubing, Full 4130 Cr-Mo main frame tubing, made in Taiwan, Serial No U71.... so assume built in 1997, front and real breaks are rim type, Shimano RSX shifters, Maxxis C-1115 tyres (that are flat).

So my question to you is: What sort of price should I post this bike for?

[stevenaaus]

Imho you'd be lucky to get fifty for it. Probably easier to just gift it to recyclers if you're in the city.

[Eug1]

So my question to you is: What sort of price should I post this bike for?

Depends. $50-$100 might be about right. Having said that I had one of these in a larger size (62cm) that I sold for $200 to a guy who was even taller than me (6’3”). Give it a good clean and tune up and that’ll improve your chances of moving it along. Good luck

[uart]

So my question to you is: What sort of price should I post this bike for?

Post up some pictures and people could give you a better idea. Generally however those 90s models, which are TIG welded in Taiwan with unicrown forks, are not nearly as desirable as the earlier Japanese made lugged frame models. If you can get $100 for it then you're probably doing ok.

I payed $130 for something similar (90s Samurai) a few years back, but I probably payed a bit too much given that it was in a lot poorer mech condition than I thought once I stripped it down (totally flogged hubs and a broken brifter).

[WillieWillie]

Searching for a cataloge from 1984 and 1985.

'84/85...I don't remember...I was approached by a Japanese man whom asked if I would be a model for a Shogun bicycle. It was a touring bike. This happened in Kailua-kona, Hawaii. I recall his last name was Kobayashi. He said his father owned Shogun.

Anyway, we drove around the island, and they took pics of me riding a bike. They gave me the bike as payment. It was new from the factory. Not yet sold in the open market. I recall he gave me the address of Shogun in Japan and told me to send a letter requesting cataloge. I didn't bother. Too busy riding waves and preparing to move to the mainland.

I sold the bike a couple few years later: '86 or '87. It was too small for me. I didn't like riding it. Anyway, I'm now in my 50's and due to that nostalgic feeling, I'm seeking that catalogue.

For all I know it was for the Australian market. Idk, maybe it was for the North America market. Maybe it was for the Japanese market. Idk, but
If that catalogue still exists, that would be cool to track it down.


So, any links or pics?

[Imwit]

Cool story WillieWillie. Was it a road bike?

[WillieWillie]

Cool story WillieWillie. Was it a road bike?

Yes, it was road bike, but my fading memory swears he called it a "touring" bike.

He was wearing a three-piece, white suit walking around Kona town as triathletes training flew by on their bikes. Surreal.

He stopped me and asked in broken English what time it was. I kindly responded weirded out by a man in a suit walking around lei'd back Kona. It wasn't something one saw even rarely.

He then asked me if he could "take shot" of me with his camera. Yeah, that's when I began to slowly back away thinking the dude was up to no good. But he explained the best he could who he was and what the pics would be used for. He gave me his business card, and later my dad called him and determined he was on the level.

When I asked Mr Kobayashi why me when there were all these triathletes around, he said it was because I looked like the "all American" boy. Lol, that cracks me up thinking about it now. And to think I was friends with and sat next to Rodkey Faust in school. Back in the "80s he was the youngest person to participate in the Kona Triathlon.

He should have been the model, not me. Surreal.

[Imwit]

Yes, it was road bike, but my fading memory swears he called it a "touring" bike.

Probably a tourer. Sheldon Brown on his Japanese manufacturers in US page (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/japan.html) reckons 1985 was the peak for Japanese tourers. Soon after that everyone went to Mountain Bikes.

I’ve had a good dig online and can’t find any 1984 or 85 catalogs. But they must be out there.

I swear there used to be a webpage with a detailed Shogun in the US history written by the original distributor. But I could be confusing Shogun with another brand.

[PT cycling]

Hi everyone

Joined the forum to get some advice and your expertise in regards to a Shogun bicycle that had been handed down to me by my dad. Warning, long post!

I'm new to cycling stuff so please excuse my ignorance on part/frame naming.

From what I can tell based on what my dad told me, it is a late 70s early 80s model. I can't remember if my dad bought it second hand, but he would have purchased it around the 80s in Germany and took it with him when we migrated to Aus.

He gave it to me about 18 years ago and I rode it a few times until it started to slip when I was going uphill. I was more into cars/motorbikes at the time so didn't spend much time/effort to fix it...but I have kept it for nostalgia. I want to refurbish it, however not sure what kind of cost I'll be looking at and if its worth the effort. I'll be doing most of the work myself unless I get stuck or fine tuning.

From what I know, everything is original except for brake cables, brake pads, seat, tyres and possibly both wheels, but definitely the front wheel as it bent at some point. I think everything else is original...rust and all.

Gear set is Shimano Altus...from my googling, looks like the RD-AT11 from 1978. Brakes are Shimano Tourney with some cheap brake pads. Rear wheel has Sovos stamped on the axis...not sure if that's new or original.

On the frame, there is a Shogun emblem on the front steering shaft/rack (?) And under the seat post part of the frame (vertical part) there is a sticker with ST on it.
Frame colour is orange...rust kind of blends in!

That's as much as I got in regards to indentifying information. I have linked an Imgur album for more details. Not sure if there is a preferred image sharing site...if there is, please let me know and I'll change it.

https://imgur.com/a/XDVqQcO

So many questions I don't know where to begin! Are the gear sets salvagable or should I get something newer to retrofit? Is rust removal using chemicals okay for these old parts? How much would it cost to get frame to be repainted?

Also I found the cause of the slipping when I tried to fix it. The ratchet (?) mechanism in the hub has these 2 tabs that spring out to engage the teeth inside the hub, however one of the tabs stays down. It's free but it looks like the fine wire spring is broken on it. Can this be replaced? Or should I just source another hub? Considering the age, I dare say they will be hard to find.

Sorry about the long post and thank you for reading this far!

Thanks in advance
Phong

[P!N20]

Hi Phong,

Welcome - quite a bit to unpack there, let's see how we go.

Firstly, is the frame the right size for you? From the image you provided the saddle is very low, which may be an indication the frame is too big. How tall are you? The frame looks to be about a 58, so you'd probably need to be about 1.8m tall minimum.

It's a low end bike, nothing wrong with that, but it's probably not worth spending too much money on. I mean, if you want to spend lots of money on it, that's up to you! Powder coating starts at probably $200, but quality can vary. From the photo the paint doesn't look too bad, and the mantra here is 'it's only original once'.

Regarding the pawl spring in the hub, unless you can find a donor hub/wheel to pilfer parts from, it's probably just easier getting a replacement wheel.

If it was mine, I'd probably just make sure the cables, chain and tyres were in good condition and call it done. Would make a good light duty commuter or runabout.

[uart]

Also I found the cause of the slipping when I tried to fix it. The ratchet (?) mechanism in the hub has these 2 tabs that spring out to engage the teeth inside the hub, however one of the tabs stays down.

It looks like a standard screw on freewheel. You should be able to pick up one at any local bike shop that works on older bikes. A 14-28T 6 speed screw on freewheel was just about standard on many low end bikes, so you should have no problems finding one. Also, 14-28 will give you a better low end gear range for commuting compared to what's already on there.

BTW. Did you manage to remove the existing freewheel or did you dismantle it while still in place on the wheel (to find the broken ratchet pawl spring). As you've probably already found, the lockring to get them apart is a left hand thread, and there's about a million (slight exaggeration) tiny little loose ball bearings in there. While I have pulled them apart and serviced them before, people rarely bother as the cogs are a consumable component (wear out with use) and it costs very little to just replace the whole thing.

You don't need to disassemble the freewheel to remove it. With the right tool it should just screw off anticlockwise (though old ones can be really tight and a bit of a bitch to break free).

[PT cycling]

Hi Phong,

Welcome - quite a bit to unpack there, let's see how we go.

Firstly, is the frame the right size for you? From the image you provided the saddle is very low, which may be an indication the frame is too big. How tall are you? The frame looks to be about a 58, so you'd probably need to be about 1.8m tall minimum.

It's a low end bike, nothing wrong with that, but it's probably not worth spending too much money on. I mean, if you want to spend lots of money on it, that's up to you! Powder coating starts at probably $200, but quality can vary. From the photo the paint doesn't look too bad, and the mantra here is 'it's only original once'.

Regarding the pawl spring in the hub, unless you can find a donor hub/wheel to pilfer parts from, it's probably just easier getting a replacement wheel.

If it was mine, I'd probably just make sure the cables, chain and tyres were in good condition and call it done. Would make a good light duty commuter or runabout.

Hi P!N20 and thank you for the welcome. Definitely a fair bit to unpack here.

I am not sure about frame sizing. It was a hand me down so kept it for nostalgia reasons. I am 1.8m, so height wise, I think it fits, however I have left the saddle low as it was easier. I remember reading that your legs need to be near full extension when seated with pedals on the bottom, so I have adjusted it so that my legs are not at full extension...it just felt more comfortable.

I don't want to spend thousands on it to be honest, but just to get it to better condition what it is currently. I plan to ride it to work once in a blue moon so sounds like a good starting point for a light commuter.

Also I found the cause of the slipping when I tried to fix it. The ratchet (?) mechanism in the hub has these 2 tabs that spring out to engage the teeth inside the hub, however one of the tabs stays down.

It looks like a standard screw on freewheel. You should be able to pick up one at any local bike shop that works on older bikes. A 14-28T 6 speed screw on freewheel was just about standard on many low end bikes, so you should have no problems finding one. Also, 14-28 will give you a better low end gear range for commuting compared to what's already on there.

BTW. Did you manage to remove the existing freewheel or did you dismantle it while still in place on the wheel (to find the broken ratchet pawl spring). As you've probably already found, the lockring to get them apart is a left hand thread, and there's about a million (slight exaggeration) tiny little loose ball bearings in there. While I have pulled them apart and serviced them before, people rarely bother as the cogs are a consumable component (wear out with use) and it costs very little to just replace the whole thing.

You don't need to disassemble the freewheel to remove it. With the right tool it should just screw off anticlockwise (though old ones can be really tight and a bit of a bitch to break free).

I am not sure what type of freewheel it is, probably need to take it to someone to let me know.
Q: Since I have 5 speed on it now, will a 6 speed fit? I remember reading up on different speed sets that might not fit due to width and also due to derailleur range?

I did remove the existing freewheel and dismantled it. Indeed there were a hole lot of ball bearings that fell everywhere. From what was remaining of the spring, I bent it so that it sat snug in the pawl (thanks for the term). I managed to put everything back together again and took it for a ride with the kids today...surprisingly there was no slipping this time, but I wasn't pushing it so might be okay for gentle commute. If it slips later when I try and push it more, then I think replacement would be best.

Open question: what would be the best way to remove rust from the mechanical things (derailleur, brake arms (?), etc). Most of the parts have some form of rust or are just dull. example, the brake horse shoe shaped things look really dull, but not rusted...from the photo's I've seen they were definitely shinier. Would I just have to clean and polish? What products would be safe to work on these parts? Don't want cause more damage.

Thank you everyone!

[Repeater]

I'm a hard rubbish scavenger & my dream has come true!! I have found a Shogun Samarai in extraordinary condition. It looks as if it has been stored inside & had limited use. I have pumped up the tyres & test ridden it & it feels crisp. I have only ever ridden MT bikes, so this feels 'interesting'. I am keen on any feedback & as I am in my 70s, I am open to offers.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U8nKu9Z9aM9yiHWB9

[savvas]

...so I believe it’s a 1990 model. It’s missing the wheels, which seem to be 700c - I tried a 26” set which was too small.

I have a GroundBreaker too. I think mine is an early-mid-'90s judging by the components. Started out with a full Shimano LX groups with cantis front & rear. Has 700C wheels although I believe at some point the GroundBreaker name was used for a 26" wheeled bike. I've rebuilt the front wheel with an Alfine dyno hub. Currently has a set of Deore thumbs - can't recall if they were original or if I installed them (I prefer thumb shifters).

Mine is full butted cromo, original white paint, moderately sloping TT & quite light weight with touring eyelets on the dropouts & fork (only 2 bottle cages though). Nice bike but a little small for me at 17.5" C-T. I may sell this, either complete or as a frame set...

[Irish Yobbo]

Hi Shogun enthusiasts, I'm hoping someone here can help me with tyre sizes. There's a good late 90s Shogun Samurai frame for sale near me, but no way of checking wheel and tyre sizes without going and hassling the seller (I don't want to be that guy who goes to look at a frame and finds out it's not what I want if I can find that info elsewhere).

I'm interested in using it as more of a comfort-oriented road bike with slightly bigger tyres to handle rougher roads to compliment my road bike. But I don't know what the largest tyres you can fit on these frames are, it looks like they came with 22/23 tyres and I've seen some mention of 25mm. Is there any clearance for anything bigger? Calipers are probably not an issue as I have some long-reach spares that should work.

[uart]

I'm interested in using it as more of a comfort-oriented road bike with slightly bigger tyres to handle rougher roads to compliment my road bike. But I don't know what the largest tyres you can fit on these frames are, it looks like they came with 22/23 tyres and I've seen some mention of 25mm. Is there any clearance for anything bigger? Calipers are probably not an issue as I have some long-reach spares that should work.

Assuming yours is the mid-late 90's Samurai (TIG welded frame with unicrown forks) like mine pictured below, then yes 25c is dead easy. Just eyeballing mine at the moment (currently fitted with 25c), it looks like it would probably take 28c, but that would be the limit. I don't think 32c would work.

Again just eyeballing it, and it looks like the limiting tight spots will be the top of the fork crown (vertical distance) on the front wheel, and lateral distance to the chain stays on the back wheel.

I've got spare front wheel with 700x28c mounted on it floating around here somewhere, so if I get time later I'll slip it into the Shogun and take a look. My gut feeling is that the front will probably be ok at 28c, but the rear might be just a little on the tight side.

[stevenaaus]

PROFESSIONALLY BUILT
Model: KAZE, 30 Speed
CHAINWHEEL DURACE
BB SET WITH CRANK SET

Kaze with cr*p tioga seat, and wheel plastic, for a cool $3700 asking!
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 8871803936
Lovely frame though!... maybe worth a grand ??

[stevenaaus]

I'm a hard rubbish scavenger & my dream has come true!! I have found a Shogun Samarai in extraordinary condition. It looks as if it has been stored inside & had limited use. I have pumped up the tyres & test ridden it & it feels crisp. I have only ever ridden MT bikes, so this feels 'interesting'. I am keen on any feedback & as I am in my 70s, I am open to offers.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U8nKu9Z9aM9yiHWB9

Nice find It's in good nick, but selling that turquoise thing mightn't be easy.

[P!N20]

Nice find It's in good nick, but selling that turquoise thing mightn't be easy.

I dunno, Japanese made triple triangles are reasonably desirable.

[uart]

I've got spare front wheel with 700x28c mounted on it floating around here somewhere, so if I get time later I'll slip it into the Shogun and take a look.

Did that test late this afternoon.

Results.
- Front wheel, 28c fits pretty comfortably. Distance from top of the tyre to fork crown is not huge, but unless you are riding through thick mud it's probably enough.

- Rear wheel, 28c fits but is a bit tight. Only a couple of mm each side to the chain stays which could be a nuisance. I don't think I'd bother running 28c on the back. (Note that I only had a front wheel to test so it was only an approx test on the rear. I put in a rear wheel skewer to align the wheel with the drop outs, but obviously the wheel was never actually in the dropouts. So it was only an approximate alignment to how a rear wheel would sit.)

Looks like it would make an ok mullet though, 25c on the back and 28c up front.

[Irish Yobbo]

I've got spare front wheel with 700x28c mounted on it floating around here somewhere, so if I get time later I'll slip it into the Shogun and take a look.

Did that test late this afternoon.

Results.
- Front wheel, 28c fits pretty comfortably. Distance from top of the tyre to fork crown is not huge, but unless you are riding through thick mud it's probably enough.

- Rear wheel, 28c fits but is a bit tight. Only a couple of mm each side to the chain stays which could be a nuisance. I don't think I'd bother running 28c on the back. (Note that I only had a front wheel to test so it was only an approx test on the rear. I put in a rear wheel skewer to align the wheel with the drop outs, but obviously the wheel was never actually in the dropouts. So it was only an approximate alignment to how a rear wheel would sit.)

Looks like it would make an ok mullet though, 25c on the back and 28c up front.

Thanks uart, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I was hoping to fit some slightly bigger tyres in there, but really the bike is so cheap I'll get it anyway and give it a go.