Wheels for a Steamroller

[goof]

Hello folks,

I am new to the world of fixed gear and to this forum so please forgive me if I am in the wrong section or am asking a question that has been asked 20 times before.

After doing what is for me extensive research, (surfing the net for an afternoon) I reckon the bike I am going to buy is a complete Surly Steamroller. My question is, should I stick with the wheels that it comes with which are Alex DA-22 rims with Surly hubs or look for something else? I need a strong wheel and don't want to popping spokes every week. I am 6'3" and 94kg. I was reading another thread by Europa regarding wheels and people were mentioning the Velocity deep V rim.

Also; Cranks, it comes with 170 Sugino RD's. Good, bad or indifferent?

I figure the rest of the bike I can play with at a later date.

Any guidance or thoughts would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Goof

[tallywhacker]

welcome to the dark side.
I'm 6'2" / 105kg and ride (on the track) on a set of alex da-15's with no problems (Velocity fusion and Ambrosio on the road). If you "pop spokes" then generally it will be the quality of the wheel build or the spokes. If you do decide to change your rims dont get suckered into Velocity deep Vs, they are a nice heavy duty wheel with the emphasis on heavy, velocity fusion are a similar profile, just as strong but a lot lighter.
Nothing wrong with the Sugino cranks but I find 170mm a little short.
Also, make sure you have a brake installed

[europa]

G'day Goof,

Welcome the world or real cycling.

I'd be tempted to take the Steamroller as built by Surley - they aren't idiots and have surely chosen bits that work. Please fit brakes though, two brakes. You need a front brake to stop, you need two brake levers to ride on the hoods (where I still spend much of my time) and if a lever is there it'd might as well be hooked up to a rear brake.

Gearing will be your next question. I'm running 42x18, which is very low, but it's kind to knees and legs that seem to be taking centuries to build up. I mainly ride on bike trails so speeds above 30 aren't sustainable and there is a lot of stopping and accelerating - the lower gearing makes this magic. I can handle 42x16 in these conditions, but it's not as much fun. If your riding paths allow longer runs at higher speeds, higher gearing will soon suggest itself to you.

I'd suggest you start this low anyway because it allows far more feedback in the braking and thus allows you to develop the skills involved in controlling your speed with your feet. You'll know when it's time to go up ... because you'll keep spinning out

Richard

[goof]

Thankyou for your replies tallywacker and europa.

Will definately be getting the brake, the SR comes standard with a front, but i think it doesn't come rear brake capable from the factory. I will look into it.

Cranks; I ride my roady with 175's and reckon I will look at those. I read somewhere that it is good to have shorter cranks on a fixed, particularly for cornering clearance. But I do want the bike to be set up as closely to my BMC as I can get it. So perhaps 175's it is.

I agree with you tallywacker about wheels, reading peoples comments about this topic I get the vibe that it is the way the wheel is built in the first instance that has an awful lot to do with its performance. I think mebbe I should go with the factory item until I learn more about this type of riding.

Where is a good resource to learn more about gearing? I was looking at another thread which was converting teeth to inches. How and why is this done? I reckon I will go with what you recommend Europa, might as well start off in the right area. The bike comes from the factory 48/17. Would this be okay? Should I get a different gear on the flip flop?

Europa, I understand you are in Adelaide, so am I, moved here a while ago for work. This is the best place for bike riding I have found so far. Those Adelaide hills rock.

[europa]

Another Adelaide bloke eh? Where are you?I'm down south. Doesn't matter, the linear park is a great place to ride fixies and it's central. If you're about 6' (or taller), you're welcome to give the Europa a go. Hmm, no kids this saturday

On the gearing, gear inches is a better way of expressing things than just giving cog sizes (like I do) because it gives you a direct comparison whereas my way, unless you are using the same sized chainring, talking about the size of the cog isn't going to help.

Of course, I should now dig out the thread with the gearing calculator in it but in the mood I'm in ... oh, okay, I weakened. Here is the link to the calculator - http://software.bareknucklebrigade.com/

Now, I'm a big bloke (clydesdale rather than thoroughbred), I ride on paths rather than roads and find myself stopping and starting all the time. I've been back on the bike for a year so am reasonably fit, but if I'm going to challenge db531 or tallywhacker at riding, I'll be driving the MG

My take on gearing for fixies is that people recommend far too high a gear for beginners and probably, most people are riding in too high a gear.

I'm currently riding 42x18 - that's 62 gear inches. At that gearing, take off is easy, you spin easily and you can control your speed with the pedals easily. My rides have a lot of stopping and starting and, being largely on shared paths, I can't go barrelling along at over 30 and have to keep slowing down for all those flesh coloured mobile chicanes.

When I put on the 42x16, 70 gear inches, taking off is harder - you are obviously in too high a gear but once you are moving, that fades. However, when you try to slow down, you get that same 'too high a gear' feeling and I find myself reaching for the brakes more often. Controling a stop at the traffic lights is harder too (but not very hard, just harder ... as you'd expect being a higher gear).

I like to ride with a cadence of around 90.

With the lower gear (62 inches), I hit that around 25 km/hr, so on a bike path, I've got a useful speed range of between 20 and 30 km/hr - much lower than 20 and you're mashing, much faster than 30 and you really know you're spinning, but it's a useful speed range for a bike path.

With the higher gear (70 inches and still quite modest), I hit a 90 cadence at 30 km/hr. It means that on the bike paths, I'm always running a little behind where I'd like to be, but anything over 25 is comfy and easy. On the other hand, put me on a straight bit of road, and I can cruise at 30 or higher quite easily and aren't as likely to 'spin out' on a down hill run.

I feel that having the easier gearing is better on your first few rides to allow you to get to know the skills. Then, as your legs get stronger, you will be able to handle the higher gears, both in acceleration and deceleration, and the speed you typically travel at will determine what gear you use.

When I've got the 62" gearing fitted, I look forward to riding her. When I've got the 70" fitted, I find myself thinking about the gearing. That tells me that for the time being, I'm a in the shallow end of the fixie pool and may be there for ever (I am a recreational rider, not one of the speed demons, which is good considering my coefficient of drag), however, I will be buying a 17 tooth cog at some point in the hope that I'll still have the lively feel of the low gear without all the frantic spinning when the speeds roll up a bit.

I repeat, my gearing is very low compared to what most people talk about, however, it suits me. Tally would be amazingly frustrated with my gearing ... but I'd have trouble keeping up with him, even in the MG

Richard

[tallywhacker]

48/17 is about 74gear inches. I ride 75 after comming down from 92. The lower the gi is the more you will spin. It will be easier to make it up hills but bounce you off your saddle going down. Essentially high gi's are anerobic, low gi's are aerobic, I was told that if I wanted to build speed and stamina on the track gearing around 75 was good for training.
If you go with a second cog on the rear make sure that the same chain length can handle both cogs if you decide to make the change on the road (I have 2 chains and make a gearing choice before I leave for my ride)

try this gear calculator
http://software.bareknucklebrigade.com/

learn more about fixed
http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed/index.html

[europa]

Speed is the killer, because that's when you find your legs spinning faster than the speed of sound. I well understand the desire for higher gearing so please regard the very low gears I use as beginner territory.

On that note, fit clipless pedals - getting into toe straps is fun (because the pedals keep turning so it's hard to tighten the straps) and once the revs build up, you really need to keep your feet in contact with the pedals.

How about some tips on braking tally? I'm sure I'm doing it all wrong, though what I'm doing works.

Richard

[goof]

Will definately be going clipless in the first instance as I am happy with those.

Europa, can you please tell me where the Linear Park is? Unfortunately I will be in Tasmania this coming Saturday and will be unable to take you up on your offer to ride your bike but thankyou anyway.

I like the idea of a lower gear while I am learning, one of my concerns is the starting and stopping as there will be no more leveling of the pedals and rolling to a stop. Interesting times ahead.

I have ridden fixed singles a couple of times in the past on the track and I used to take spin classes at my local gym which used fixed bikes, but I think if anything that has the potential to make someone cocky, not better, when riding on the road.

That fixed gear calculator is a good tool, thanks very much. As for Sheldon Brown, whenever I do a search on fixed gear/singles his name always seems to pop up near the top few selections.

Am narrowing down the requirements for the new ride, just need to sort out some of the sizing issues for some stuff like cranks, the stem and the handlebars. Can't wait.

Actually was in a 24hr mountain bike race a couple of months ago and was consistently overtaken by a couple of blokes on singles with no suspension. Now thats hardcore.

[europa]

Linear Park - the shared path along the Torrens. Goes from the sea to the hills and is brilliant

Richard

[europa]

And having rabbitted on about how I've gone back to the 18 tooth cog, I've just ducked down to the hardware store, the first ride on the fixie for a few weeks (school holidays and life kept me on the other bikes). Rolled out and off. Man this gear feels odd. Rolling along, don't get into my stride until 30km/hr. Hmm. Returning home up a very steep hill, even my body weight is having trouble turning the gear. Get home and do a tooth count. Sure enough, it seems I have two 16 tooth cogs and one 18 - at the last change, I took off one 16 and put the other one on instead of the 18

Ah well, I'll persevere with it for a bit. 45km/hr rolling down that steep hill (that's a cadence of 145 ) - wouldn't want to do that with the 18, mind you, getting back up was 'fun'.

The beauty of fixed is the momentum you generate and maintain. There's a dip on the route that has you dive into an old creek crossing. The pull out the other side is very deceptive and always has you going right down through the gears - it's a delight watching other riders struggle up the darned thing, even though it is short. Today on the fixie, I belted down into it and basically ran up the otherside, only having to get off the seat for the last 20 metres - that just doesn't happen on the geared bike, even though I do try it.

So, for the time being, I'm running around with 70 gear inches.
I still need some pointers for slowing down though.

Richard

[tallywhacker]

the beauty of a fixed gear is always having resistance when you pedal, none of that clunk at certain points in a pedal stroke that you get with gears.
The secret to braking is plan ahead and keep alert. You should be able to see what is happen ahead and adjust your speed with your feet. I still run a front brake but these days it is used sparingly (still on the same brake pads as when I built it 4 years ago)

[europa]

I tend to regard having to use the brakes as a breakdown in my technique ... but don't fuss about it, there's nothing cool about bumping into things.

Where do you apply the pressure?

With the 62" gearing, I can 'catch' the pedal as it approaches the top of its stroke, in that last third of the rotation, and that is very effective - there's a really nice 'squeeze' feel in the thigh muscles when you do it and it doesn't seem to produce any adverse effects.

With the 70" gearing, I can't do that. I seem to get onto the pedal a lot earlier and it feels just like the reverse of trying to take off in too high a gear which it is of course, but it has that same dull effect on the braking. On a fast run, when trying to moderate your speed, you feel like you are being tossed off the seat though I'm guessing that with experience I'll be able to apply a small amount of pressure and smooth out the whole exercise (which I can do with the 62").

I'm aiming for smooth, un-noticeable transitions from power to 'coasting' to braking and won't go any higher in the gearing until I can.

Mind you, I don't know that I want to go any higher. I averaged 20km/hr on the ride today (thanks to that hill), which equates to a very low cadence for me (I'm a spinner, not a masher) and with a max of 45km/hr, which I was able to spin smoothly (some of the time, man that felt great ), I don't really need to go any quicker except down steep hills where that's going to be a pain. 30 km/hr gives me my 'natural' cadence of 90 so I can work either side of that so unless I'm in territory that requires to me ride at much less than 25km/hr, I'm working in a good cadence range for me.

Those higher gearings must require either much higher speeds than I ride at or much lower cadences than I run.

But yeah, I love that turbine like feel when you smooth out at cadences around 140 or higher

Richard

[tallywhacker]

apply pressure thru the whole pedal stroke, it doesn't have to be a lot if you judge things well.
Took me along time and a bit of help to work out corrent pedaling. I was a masher and always hated spinning but I got converted. whenever I feel like I'm on a bucking horse I just try an concentrate on a smooth stroke and pedal the whole stroke.

[goof]

Europa, were you out this morning (saturday) up near Westlakes? Overtook a Europa bike but was past it before I realised.

This braking discussion is interesting, it is always nice to be able to speed up but it is better to be able to slow down.

Hopefully will have the ride by next week.

[europa]

Nope, weren't me. I was probably still in bed recovering from the TdF

Actually, it's a good thing you didn't take me up on the offer. When I went for my ride yesterday, the wheels were creaking something awful so they're off at the lbs getting the spokes retightened. Man were the spokes loose, and those wheels have done less than 100km.

Richard

[goof]

Made the purchase today, will get the bike next week. 59cm Surly Steamroller, standard everything but will change the bars to 440mm up from 420mm, will get a 100mm stem and will try out the 170 cranks before opting for 175's. First test flight will definately be in a controlled environment such as bike track or car park. I do not want to put it down the road in the first 100k with me still attached, particularly not coming down off Norton sdummit or the like.

I tell ya, if this pans out the way I expect it will perhaps the next weapon of choice will be a single gear rigid mountainy?

As I get older Europa, I kind of like having creaks coming form my bike as they tend to cover up the sounds of my creaking knee joints.

What is the story behind the Europa brand? Where are they from etc etc? I have not heard of them.

Thanks for the directions to the track, I will be headed that way soon.

[europa]

Great news.

For your first ride, bring it down to the Edwardstown Velodrome (Raglan Ave - it's in behind Castle Plaza). It's an open air velodrome, 500 long (twice the length of the indoor ones you see used) so doesn't have extreme banking. Best bit is though, it's always open and unless you're unlucky enough to a training session for the triathletes or footy club, usually deserted. Give a yell when you go down and I'll join you.

Europa are an Aussie brand. The owner made frames for many years, still does in Sydney. During the eighties, it grew to be an Australia wide company and sold Nishiki frames rebadged as Europa's (just like Repco did) which at that time were one of the best Japanese frame companies. Mine's one of the Nishikis.

[goof]

Hello Europa. I will certainly get down to the V. when I can. I am bringing the bike with me back to Adelaide on Friday.

I have started a new thread and would be interested in your comments regards a couple of questions I have posted.

Cheers.