Why ebikes are good / bad

[Lukeyboy]

Some of the arguments in this thread haha.



Bring on the worn out cassette body teeth, half missing pistons because they used up the metal pad backing and fried emotors from constant turbo mode in the 11th cog!

There is already a law setting out the requirements for a two wheel motor powered cycle that’s limited to less than 50km/h - it’s called a moped

Overtaken plenty of those gutless noisy pos things on a commuter bike carrying 9 days worth of work clothes. Sometimes I toy with them before overtaking them in the right hand lane

That's silly. I'd be tipping the average speed on the local paths I see would be somewhere between 25 and 30k. Yes I know there are a couple of areas around BNE where in the commute times might be higher than that

Like that time I went past you at 44kph going up the hill outside Albion railway station? Hopefully no one looks at the Bowen Bridge outbound Strava segment and some of the speeds people take through there Who on earth does 50kph through that park!

[Comedian]

That's silly. I'd be tipping the average speed on the local paths I see would be somewhere between 25 and 30k. Yes I know there are a couple of areas around BNE where in the commute times might be higher than that

Like that time I went past you at 44kph going up the hill outside Albion railway station? Hopefully no one looks at the Bowen Bridge outbound Strava segment and some of the speeds people take through there Who on earth does 50kph through that park!

Like I said.. there are definitely some places where I could believe the average speeds are higher, especially in peak hours. A lot of people seemed to get pretty confused between their average speed, the average speed of the guy they saw really flying the other day, and the actual average speed of everyone else.

If we want safety, allowing e-thingies to do unlimited speeds.. that's not going to help. Just like in cars, it's more speed differential that actually kills rather than the speed itself.

[find_bruce]

There is already a law setting out the requirements for a two wheel motor powered cycle that’s limited to less than 50km/h - it’s called a moped

Overtaken plenty of those gutless noisy pos things on a commuter bike carrying 9 days worth of work clothes. Sometimes I toy with them before overtaking them in the right hand lane

At 1/3 the power of a postie bike & most mopeds are clapped out I should hope so

[Janice]

Our laws of 250W pedelec and 25km/h speed limit were adopted from Europe. Europe also have the s pedelec laws I support. Seems odd for us to adopt only half of the European laws.

[Janice]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/26/2115 ... edelec-isa

Schiphol Airport, located just outside of Amsterdam, is preparing to test a new system that automatically slows the fastest electric bikes as they approach. The bikes, known as speed pedelecs, or s-pedelecs, are capable of going 45 km/h (28 mph) and would be slowed to the speed of regular bicycles as a matter of safety, reports Het Parool. The assurance of slower speeds could eventually allow s-pedelecs fitted with Intelligent Speed Assistants (ISAs) to join other bicyclists on the dedicated bike lanes found everywhere in the Netherlands.

[Comedian]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/26/2115 ... edelec-isa

Schiphol Airport, located just outside of Amsterdam, is preparing to test a new system that automatically slows the fastest electric bikes as they approach. The bikes, known as speed pedelecs, or s-pedelecs, are capable of going 45 km/h (28 mph) and would be slowed to the speed of regular bicycles as a matter of safety, reports Het Parool. The assurance of slower speeds could eventually allow s-pedelecs fitted with Intelligent Speed Assistants (ISAs) to join other bicyclists on the dedicated bike lanes found everywhere in the Netherlands.

There you have it. The safest speed for an electric bike is the closest one to the prevailing bike travel speed.

[Janice]

Ok I think the idea of the s-pedelec is dead in the water. If people want something faster than a regular ebike then they should just get a motorcycle. I must be the only person who wants a motorbike that I can get some exercise on.

[Comedian]

Ok I think the idea of the s-pedelec is dead in the water. If people want something faster than a regular ebike then they should just get a motorcycle. I must be the only person who wants a motorbike that I can get some exercise on.

Look.. I think you're right. Faster e-bikes would be popular. As I've already observed - a great many of the e-bikes and scooters that I see commuting have had the limiters removed so it's something people want. You're posting on a bike forum where most people are going to be advocating for what we have now (which I don't think is a bad thing). There is a forum called "endless sphere" or something like that where I believe you'd find lots of people who would agree.

The problem is that there are limited paths (I know there is in BNE) and having fast scooters mixing it with kids learning to ride and everyday commuters pootling along is not a good outcome. The answer is to as you say have higher speed paths for longer distance travel. But what few of those that exist are heavily trafficked as it is. Changing the laws in the expectation that council would boost and in some areas duplicate the network is farcical.

I guess... then the challenge is how do you get the laws changed in your state? Talking to politicians is likely to be the way. The more people you have onside the better. My experience of politicians is they are completely car blind though.

[find_bruce]

Borrowed a mate's ebike for a week Giant E+ Ex pro.


I was surprised at how much fun it was to ride. It's a bit on the heavy side - I haven't put it on scales but I understand its a touch under 20kg & the weight is noticeable when running it up a few stairs. On the road not so much. On max power I really noticed the power drop off as I passed 25 km/h.

My wife, a very occasional rider, used it for her first ever 10 km commute to work & it went really well. I have ridden this route for 15 years so picked the route with the lowest interaction with moron motorists.

I discovered a significant reason why ebikes are bad - jeez it was hard work trying to keep up with her on the hills.

[Comedian]

Borrowed a mate's ebike for a week Giant E+ Ex pro.


I discovered a significant reason why ebikes are bad - jeez it was hard work trying to keep up with her on the hills.

It's usually easy to spot a legal e-bike. They are rockets on the hills but sit on 25kph on the flat. Hence they behave quite oddly within the bike traffic stream.

Though as I've said above .. I can't remember when I last saw one with the limiter still in place...

[ironhanglider]

Borrowed a mate's ebike for a week Giant E+ Ex pro.


I was surprised at how much fun it was to ride. It's a bit on the heavy side - I haven't put it on scales but I understand its a touch under 20kg & the weight is noticeable when running it up a few stairs. On the road not so much. On max power I really noticed the power drop off as I passed 25 km/h.

My wife, a very occasional rider, used it for her first ever 10 km commute to work & it went really well. I have ridden this route for 15 years so picked the route with the lowest interaction with moron motorists.

I discovered a significant reason why ebikes are bad - jeez it was hard work trying to keep up with her on the hills.

Walk assist mode helps a lot.

For the few commutes that I did on my ebike I managed to catch a bloke in the hilly bits that has a similar commute to me. Sadly the last half of the commute is pan flat and I was in the red trying to hold his wheel (at 30km/h), even though he was busy telling me how easy it must be for me with the motor.

Cheers,

Cameron

[Janice]

Sadly the last half of the commute is pan flat and I was in the red trying to hold his wheel (at 30km/h), even though he was busy telling me how easy it must be for me with the motor.

In America the speed cuts out at 32km/h. Maybe that is a more reasonable speed for flat roads. As to the hills, a 250W motor may not even reach 32km/h depending on rider weight, fitness and terrain.

[ironhanglider]

Sadly the last half of the commute is pan flat and I was in the red trying to hold his wheel (at 30km/h), even though he was busy telling me how easy it must be for me with the motor.

In America the speed cuts out at 32km/h. Maybe that is a more reasonable speed for flat roads. As to the hills, a 250W motor may not even reach 32km/h depending on rider weight, fitness and terrain.

A higher cutout speed would make it easier for me to ride with and chat to the fast commuters, I recognise a few other riders (and walkers) who travel the same route at the same times and I was one of the fast ones before injury. However I don't think that there are enough votes in it for even one politician to support a change in the speed limits.

I am happy with the concept of using a motor to turn a sub-average rider into an average one, rather than turn average riders into superhumans. I don't have a big problem with the speed limit where it is. If I found it frustratingly slow and wanted to go faster on the flat, then I'd ride my regular commuter bike. 25km/h on the flat is still faster than many of the riders on my commute.

Overall, however my speed on the ebike is no different to my speed on the regular bike - 1hr 05 going in, 1hr 15 coming home, the ebike is faster uphill and less sweaty (if I don't try to exceed 25km/h). As Bruce has observed, riding alongside a person on an ebike is a lot like doing interval training. The easy bits are easier and the hard bits are harder. If you ignore the other person however, you will end up in pretty much the same place at the same time.

Cheers,

Cameron

[find_bruce]

Overall, however my speed on the ebike is no different to my speed on the regular bike - 1hr 05 going in, 1hr 15 coming home, the ebike is faster uphill and less sweaty (if I don't try to exceed 25km/h). As Bruce has observed, riding alongside a person on an ebike is a lot like doing interval training. The easy bits are easier and the hard bits are harder. If you ignore the other person however, you will end up in pretty much the same place at the same time.

Cheers,

Cameron

Challenge accepted Cameron, I'll ride the e-bike to work tomorrow, go as hard as I can & see if it makes any difference.

[ironhanglider]

Overall, however my speed on the ebike is no different to my speed on the regular bike - 1hr 05 going in, 1hr 15 coming home, the ebike is faster uphill and less sweaty (if I don't try to exceed 25km/h). As Bruce has observed, riding alongside a person on an ebike is a lot like doing interval training. The easy bits are easier and the hard bits are harder. If you ignore the other person however, you will end up in pretty much the same place at the same time.

Cheers,

Cameron

Challenge accepted Cameron, I'll ride the e-bike to work tomorrow, go as hard as I can & see if it makes any difference.

Oh dear. I am suddenly reminded of the time that the Rt. Hon. James Hacker MP was chided by his Permanent Secretary over the omission of the word "significant". I should have stated that my speed is not significantly different. For "no different" a difference of any magnitude would make me a liar. For "not significantly different" however, any difference can be waved away as "not significant".

My ride to work is mostly downhill with the final third being flat. The fastest I have ridden that is 50min (which took a long time to recover from). On the other hand I have hundreds of trips logged between 1:00 and 1:10. The few trips I managed on the ebike before lockdown were all within an ace of 1:05. I haven't tried riding the ebike as hard as I can but it's riding position does not favour record attempts. I suspect that there is at most 10 minutes to be gained by riding hard over a regular ebike ride. It kind of defeats the purpose of having an ebike to be riding it like a TT.

My regular ride home time is more variable on my regular bike. I have managed it under the hour by going flat out, but the majority of my rides were from 1:10 to 1:25 depending on conditions and fatigue. My ebike times are consistently 1:10-1:15. If I tried hard I might be able to squeeze a bit of time out on the flat (good for a minute or two perhaps), but my regular efforts will keep me close to 25 up the hills, so there is not much time to be gained up the hills compared to a regular ebike ride. I'd be a bit surprised if I could get down to 1:05.

One of the great advantages of an ebike for commuting is that (with appropriate tyres) your commute time is really consistent. Pretty much regardless of conditions you have a good idea of how long it will take.

Cheers,

Cameron

[find_bruce]

Oh dear. I am suddenly reminded of the time that the Rt. Hon. James Hacker MP was chided by his Permanent Secretary over the omission of the word "significant". I should have stated that my speed is not significantly different. For "no different" a difference of any magnitude would make me a liar. For "not significantly different" however, any difference can be waved away as "not significant".

My ride to work is mostly downhill with the final third being flat. The fastest I have ridden that is 50min (which took a long time to recover from). On the other hand I have hundreds of trips logged between 1:00 and 1:10. The few trips I managed on the ebike before lockdown were all within an ace of 1:05. I haven't tried riding the ebike as hard as I can but it's riding position does not favour record attempts. I suspect that there is at most 10 minutes to be gained by riding hard over a regular ebike ride. It kind of defeats the purpose of having an ebike to be riding it like a TT.

My regular ride home time is more variable on my regular bike. I have managed it under the hour by going flat out, but the majority of my rides were from 1:10 to 1:25 depending on conditions and fatigue. My ebike times are consistently 1:10-1:15. If I tried hard I might be able to squeeze a bit of time out on the flat (good for a minute or two perhaps), but my regular efforts will keep me close to 25 up the hills, so there is not much time to be gained up the hills compared to a regular ebike ride. I'd be a bit surprised if I could get down to 1:05.

One of the great advantages of an ebike for commuting is that (with appropriate tyres) your commute time is really consistent. Pretty much regardless of conditions you have a good idea of how long it will take.

Cheers,

Cameron

You could also add "statistically significant", knowing that n=1

For me the shortest route into the Sydney CBD is ~10km & has 4 short sharp hills & a whole bunch of stop signs, traffic lights etc. On the road bike I often go a 13 km route that is quicker because it's flatter & the light sequence generally means I can maintain 30+ km/h for long enough.

Funnily enough I chose the short route today. Usual moving average is 20-22 km/h. What I noticed wasn't just the hills but how quickly I accelerated up to 25km/h, with the result that my moving average was 24.5km/h. How much difference does that make? Moving time was 24:07 with an elapsed time of 26:39, so its less than 5 minutes faster. I'll leave it to others to decide if that's significant

[find_bruce]

We have a family e-bike which has may modes. I usually ride it in sport but it has a turbo too. And I don't think i can ever remember getting the bike out and it not being switched into turbo. It's just not how people roll.

I remembered your comment when borrowing the giant - every time you turn it on it defaults to the lowest assistance setting.

I was a bit surprised that my wife asked for the assistance to be turned down from full power for the ride home, but I suspect that was just not quite feeling in control with full power & that reluctance would disappear over time.

[Comedian]

We have a family e-bike which has may modes. I usually ride it in sport but it has a turbo too. And I don't think i can ever remember getting the bike out and it not being switched into turbo. It's just not how people roll.

I remembered your comment when borrowing the giant - every time you turn it on it defaults to the lowest assistance setting.

I was a bit surprised that my wife asked for the assistance to be turned down from full power for the ride home, but I suspect that was just not quite feeling in control with full power & that reluctance would disappear over time.

Won't take long. My daughter takes it to school.. again it's always on turbo whenever I turn it on.

[Comedian]

So a friend wants an e-bike to commute 10k each way to work. He says his budget is $1200.

I told him he'll just get rubbish for that. Was I harsh?

[find_bruce]

Maybe a bit harsh, but he’s hunting through the bargain basement & stock is hard to find

[skyblot]

So a friend wants an e-bike to commute 10k each way to work. He says his budget is $1200.

I told him he'll just get rubbish for that. Was I harsh?

Nope. Realistic. Most of the DIY kits are more than that. Indeed some batteries are well over $800 alone.

[Janice]

So a friend wants an e-bike to commute 10k each way to work. He says his budget is $1200.

I told him he'll just get rubbish for that. Was I harsh?

Leitner seems to be around that price. Never tried it but it has good reviews.

[Janice]

Overall, however my speed on the ebike is no different to my speed on the regular bike

Ok you have convinced me. Leave the law as it is.

[find_bruce]

We are getting a few inquiries for ebikes, but don't have an ebike buyers guide. What do you think people want to know?

[redsonic]

We are getting a few inquiries for ebikes, but don't have an ebike buyers guide. What do you think people want to know?

I think people will easily find what they want to know online. A buyer's guide on BNA would be valuable if it focussed on pitfalls and things to watch out for.
As above, cheap bikes. Battery quality and capacity. Look for waterproof wiring connectors, ability to tune power delivery. Regulations and legality (varies from state-state I know, but obviously people aren't very aware of speed and power restrictions). Who to buy from? ("normal" bike shop, specialist pedelec seller, online, kit) Who to get it serviced by. What are the best brands?