UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

[g-boaf]

Reduced lever pressure = better stop from the hoods and better modulation. Generally not a problem though.
I have done the alpine classic on rim braked Zipp 404s.
Just stayed off the brakes a fair bit. It did hammer the front Zipp pads though.
I would be happier not to be adding heat to the area that is responsible for holding the tyre on the rim.

The reduced lever pressure is great on disc brakes and at least on my SRAM Red system on the S5, they are so precise in how they feel. I noticed it again today because I brought out the S5 again after tweaking the saddle position. Coming up to a roundabout the stopping power is way better.

I have used Mavic carbon wheels and an aero bike in the mountains before, it was better than I expected (also using Mavic pads) but fortunately dry, no rain.

Even an emergency stop when a bee got in behind my glasses was alright. The stop, not the bee! no harm done, it didn’t sting - and I got rid of it. That was on a high speed mountain descent as well.

[Mr Purple]

After making what I perceived at the time as a marginal choice between rim and disc brakes, 25,000km later I probably won't be riding a rim brake bike again unless it's a temporary arrangement.

'Being able to actually stop' is the main reason. I still recall some descents on Cootha where it had unexpectedly rained over the top when I was on my rim braked, alloy rim, Avanti. Yes, the brakes 'sort of' worked but there was always a few moments when you were wondering when that was actually going to happen.

I've had next to no disc brake specific mechanical issues in that time, excepting some rub while I was still running the factory Focus RAT axles. And that wasn't the fault of the disc brake.

[baabaa]

Interesting - and from a take off point that the tri mob really changed "racing" bikes in the 1980s ( think aero, weight, bloody uncomfortable stiff bikes with nasty geometry that would have a limited life before failing....) I kinda think that with this sort of redesign rim brakes may keep them in the market and do a Lazarus . I certainly agree with the comment in ease and maintenance of rim brakes over discs - really like how my sportive rim brake bike is always ready and silent to ride no matter how little I maintain it.

[g-boaf]

Aero design rim brakes have been around for a while in various forms. I remember the Magura RT8 TT was probably the nicest feeling of them because it had hydraulics to operate them so it always had a nice feel. Unfortunately the brake lever units themselves were a pain and prone to failures with leaking the "royal blood" all over the levers and then you have no braking ability left. Not a matter of if, but when.

[warthog1]

Yeah back to carbon rims and rim brakes? Despite me still riding them now, no thanks. The wide disc braked carbon wheels on my other bike just brake so much better. Along with wider tyres, lower pressure, no heat failure etc
Not interested enough to watch that.

[ironhanglider]

I'm not sure that I can be bothered to watch.

I presume that they claim to work better than the Campag Delta or the Shimano AX brakes of the past.

Brakes only slow you down anyway.

Cheers,

Cameron

[lone rider]

Still on a rim braked roadie, and race on it, many others still do at the races i go to. No plan to get a disc braked road bike, about to upgrade a few bits on another rim braked frame I've had hanging in the shed for a few years. I'm not anti discs, love them on my gravel and MTB, but I still dont see the need for them on a bike where efficiency is key. Let's not ignore that Greenedge are still riding rim braked TT bikes which National Champs was won on. I also flatly refuse to spend $10k on an 8 kg bike. I ride carbon rims, descend Mt Buffalo, Falls and Hotham and have never had an issue. The brake surface on the rim is the key, grooved brake tracks disperse the water and make them far better than aluminum rims. It's unfortunate that the industry has taken the choice away from people but that's nothing new. And I can still fit 30mm tyres on. Cam Nicholls video from a few weeks ago was quite amusing.

[warthog1]

Sure I have done the alpine classic on rim braked carbon wheels. It did it but is the braking as good as disc? Nup. Were it to rain regardless of what brake track you have it aint as good as disc where it is just unaffected by rain.
With respect to heat, I would much rather apply it away from the rim that has far less ability to handle heat than than carbon fibre rims. Applying it at the area where integrity is responsible for keeping the tyre inflated makes little sense to me.
Wide tyres?
My WR50 wheels are 25int and 32ext. You can run 30mm tyres without the unaero lightbulb profile a narrower rim gives you.
I no longer race but the bunches here that have the people who do are almost entirely disc. It hasn't made them slower. The fastest racers (pro tour) are disc. It aint slower and you get better brakes.

No they don't need to weigh 8kg either but yes they are expensive.
What really matters is what you like to ride though. If rim braked riding is what you like, keep doing so.

[CmdrBiggles]

My first 'flat bar' pseudo "roadie" back in 2006 was a GIANT CRX-Zero with AVID disc brakes. They were very, very effective considering how primitive they were in hindsight compared to e.g. the ones I have on my TCR (SRAM, 200gm pair — lighter than rim brakes!). UCI is only concerned with trival regulations, this disc brake stuff being one of them. Traditional roadies swear never to ride a bike on them; converts love them and today they are the dominant braking mechanism on road bikes; only Willier and some Pinarellos have rim brakes, and they look so yesterday.

There are many solid, time-proven benefits: consistent performance in wet and dry conditions are well known — conditions that can be encountered in all professional road races, and such benefits are taken for granted today in both serious recreational and commuter cyclists. Discs are unaffected by out-of-true rims, so too are they unaffected by lateral flex by brute out-of-the-seat-and-hammer riders. Adjustment is very simple, albeit a wheel removed can spell trouble if you don't have a stopper tool handy to prevent the cylinders snapping shut! A solid fall onto a hard surface will likely warp a rotor; it is a professional's job to recalibrate to planar-true; if that is not done, only the slightest amount of warp (or 'catch') will seriouly compromise the braking, very much so in an emergency application.

UCI is famous for getting their knicks in a knot. This disc brake saga is another example, a "non-event" to many rational thinkers, and a dinkum eyeroller for the bicycle industry that will push back over any dictum or edict issued by a global body.

End of the day, I don't concern myself with angst about disc-versus-rim brakes, and nobody should let this detract from the enjoyment of riding, yet there are some out there that will sneer at the sight of top-shelf road bike fitted with discs. When that comes up, I just tell them what I've already said: I'm out to enjoy cycling, not enter an argy-bargy about brakes!

[CmdrBiggles]

I also flatly refuse to spend $10k on an 8 kg bike.

Right then. I must have buggered things up spending $7,300 on a 6.7kg roadie...no complaints though!
It is a very long time (34+ years) since I rode up and down Mount Buffalo. I did it on a crazily-set up MTB-road cross with aero handlebars and 26/38T ultra-low granny, encountering snow and ice in the winter morning shadows masking the road near Cresta. Myself and fellow two-wheeled lunatic were chased away when we began riding out bikes on the snow in the chairlift loading/unloading area! Totally whacky, I admit. Ridiculous stunts like that were common in our freewheeling student days!

[stevenaaus]

Still on a rim braked roadie, and race on it, many others still do at the races i go to. No plan to get a disc braked road bike, about to upgrade a few bits on another rim braked frame I've had hanging in the shed for a few years. I'm not anti discs, love them on my gravel and MTB, but I still dont see the need for them on a bike where efficiency is key. Let's not ignore that Greenedge are still riding rim braked TT bikes which National Champs was won on. I also flatly refuse to spend $10k on an 8 kg bike. I ride carbon rims, descend Mt Buffalo, Falls and Hotham and have never had an issue. The brake surface on the rim is the key, grooved brake tracks disperse the water and make them far better than aluminum rims. It's unfortunate that the industry has taken the choice away from people but that's nothing new. And I can still fit 30mm tyres on. Cam Nicholls video from a few weeks ago was quite amusing.

Cams awesome some days.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yeVXkODhzTI

[stevenaaus]

Still on a rim braked roadie, and race on it, many others still do at the races i go to. No plan to get a disc braked road bike, about to upgrade a few bits on another rim braked frame I've had hanging in the shed for a few years. I'm not anti discs, love them on my gravel and MTB, but I still dont see the need for them on a bike where efficiency is key. Let's not ignore that Greenedge are still riding rim braked TT bikes which National Champs was won on. I also flatly refuse to spend $10k on an 8 kg bike. I ride carbon rims, descend Mt Buffalo, Falls and Hotham and have never had an issue. The brake surface on the rim is the key, grooved brake tracks disperse the water and make them far better than aluminum rims. It's unfortunate that the industry has taken the choice away from people but that's nothing new. And I can still fit 30mm tyres on. Cam Nicholls video from a few weeks ago was quite amusing.

Cam's awesome some days
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yeVXkODhzTI

[g-boaf]

Sure I have done the alpine classic on rim braked carbon wheels. It did it but is the braking as good as disc? Nup. Were it to rain regardless of what brake track you have it aint as good as disc where it is just unaffected by rain.
With respect to heat, I would much rather apply it away from the rim that has far less ability to handle heat than than carbon fibre rims. Applying it at the area where integrity is responsible for keeping the tyre inflated makes little sense to me.

That's where the disc brakes are the best when it rains. I can also name drop lots of descents (very famous ones) but it's not necessary to prove the above. They also good for oh my god stops in commuting when somebody does something completely unpredictable.

I've ridden with carbon wheels (Mavic) on big descents, they were fine but luckily it was dry on those days. If it had rained that would have been not great. Having both extremely good disc brake bike and one of the best rim brake bikes, the disc brake one is far superior when the weather is unpredictable.

[warthog1]

^^read your quote of mine.
I meant applying braking heat to a disc is far preferable to a CF rim.

Yes disc braking is far more predictable.

[g-boaf]

Totally agree. Discs aren't foolproof though and if someone doesn't use them properly they'll still be in trouble, but I'll take them anyway.

I was on the fence until I got a disc braked bike and then the difference was pretty unbelievable. You get used to how they perform and go back to a rim brake bike and then you notice the difference even more.

[lone rider]

I also flatly refuse to spend $10k on an 8 kg bike.

Right then. I must have buggered things up spending $7,300 on a 6.7kg roadie...no complaints though!
It is a very long time (34+ years) since I rode up and down Mount Buffalo. I did it on a crazily-set up MTB-road cross with aero handlebars and 26/38T ultra-low granny, encountering snow and ice in the winter morning shadows masking the road near Cresta. Myself and fellow two-wheeled lunatic were chased away when we began riding out bikes on the snow in the chairlift loading/unloading area! Totally whacky, I admit. Ridiculous stunts like that were common in our freewheeling student days!

Your scales are broken. The bike in your sig weighs nearly 7.5kg.

[CmdrBiggles]

I also flatly refuse to spend $10k on an 8 kg bike.

Right then. I must have buggered things up spending $7,300 on a 6.7kg roadie...no complaints though!
It is a very long time (34+ years) since I rode up and down Mount Buffalo. I did it on a crazily-set up MTB-road cross with aero handlebars and 26/38T ultra-low granny, encountering snow and ice in the winter morning shadows masking the road near Cresta. Myself and fellow two-wheeled lunatic were chased away when we began riding out bikes on the snow in the chairlift loading/unloading area! Totally whacky, I admit. Ridiculous stunts like that were common in our freewheeling student days!

Your scales are broken. The bike in your sig weighs nearly 7.5kg.

No, not broken. 6.73kg weighed by dealer on HIS scales.
(the weight varies with the size)

[warthog1]

Right then. I must have buggered things up spending $7,300 on a 6.7kg roadie...no complaints though!
It is a very long time (34+ years) since I rode up and down Mount Buffalo. I did it on a crazily-set up MTB-road cross with aero handlebars and 26/38T ultra-low granny, encountering snow and ice in the winter morning shadows masking the road near Cresta. Myself and fellow two-wheeled lunatic were chased away when we began riding out bikes on the snow in the chairlift loading/unloading area! Totally whacky, I admit. Ridiculous stunts like that were common in our freewheeling student days!

Your scales are broken. The bike in your sig weighs nearly 7.5kg.

No, not broken. 6.73kg weighed by dealer on HIS scales.
(the weight varies with the size)

Well done. Over a kilo lighter than my 2 rim braked roadies.
I aint particularly concerned by weight however. Aero is more important imo.

[Mr Purple]

When people complain about the disc brake noise in the wet I always figure you need friction to make noise.

My rim brakes were always silent in the wet. Didn’t work even in the slightest, but they were silent!

[g-boaf]

Your scales are broken. The bike in your sig weighs nearly 7.5kg.

No, not broken. 6.73kg weighed by dealer on HIS scales.
(the weight varies with the size)

Well done. Over a kilo lighter than my 2 rim braked roadies.
I aint particularly concerned by weight however. Aero is more important imo.

You can find even lighter than that too. Remember Canyon Ultimate CF Evo disc at 5.9kg, another crazy light bike.

100gr lighter than my 2018 rim brake CF Evo. Someone give me some AUD$12,000+ and I'll get mine down to 5.5kg.

THM brakes, THM cranks, Lightweight Meilenstein wheels, Pirelli P-Zero TT tyres. Maybe even some THM bars as well to replace the heavy Canyon H36. All mega-$$$... But even mine back in the day as a fully built bike from Canyon was $18,599, a seriously expensive rim brake bike.

I've never seen the disc brake version. Actually for that matter I've only ever seen 3 CF Evos, mine, and two others in Europe. A 56cm CF Evo brown/black like mine and the orange mechanical version which Adrian the Haute Route lantern rouge rider rides everywhere. He loves his for the same reason I like mine, light and comfortable for long distance riding.

[warthog1]

You can find even lighter than that too. Remember Canyon Ultimate CF Evo disc at 5.9kg, another crazy light bike.

100gr lighter than my 2018 rim brake CF Evo. Someone give me some AUD$12,000+ and I'll get mine down to 5.5kg.

THM brakes, THM cranks, Lightweight Meilenstein wheels, Pirelli P-Zero TT tyres. Maybe even some THM bars as well to replace the heavy Canyon H36. All mega-$$$... But even mine back in the day as a fully built bike from Canyon was $18,599, a seriously expensive rim brake bike.

I've never seen the disc brake version. Actually for that matter I've only ever seen 3 CF Evos, mine, and two others in Europe. A 56cm CF Evo brown/black like mine and the orange mechanical version which Adrian the Haute Route lantern rouge rider rides everywhere.

You can get em lighter yes. I am sure it is nice on a climb.
From memory aero is more important than weight until you start ascending at 5% or steeper. Something along those lines anyway.
Your Cervelo will be faster everywhere bar going up steep climbs.
It will be quicker and safer coming down them though I expect.

[Duck!]

From memory aero is more important than weight until you start ascending at 5% or steeper.

The biggest effect by far on both weight and aero is the nut on top of the saddle.......

[g-boaf]

From memory aero is more important than weight until you start ascending at 5% or steeper. Something along those lines anyway.
Your Cervelo will be faster everywhere bar going up steep climbs.
It will be quicker and safer coming down them though I expect.

Aside from the brakes, the Canyon is nicer on descents too especially when there are wind gusts.

Anywhere you go uphill it feels like an unfair advantage. it is illegal anyway (for UCI at least).

[warthog1]

From memory aero is more important than weight until you start ascending at 5% or steeper.

The biggest effect by far on both weight and aero is the nut on top of the saddle.......

Sure. If you have the same rider in the same postion on different bikes, as you would, then aero matters more than weight for the bike. Yes not a huge difference but it is there.

Aero wheels are a good analogy. Deep carbon wheels are notably faster almost everywhere.

[warthog1]

From memory aero is more important than weight until you start ascending at 5% or steeper. Something along those lines anyway.
Your Cervelo will be faster everywhere bar going up steep climbs.
It will be quicker and safer coming down them though I expect.

Aside from the brakes, the Canyon is nicer on descents too especially when there are wind gusts.

Is that the wheels though? From memory the Cervelo runs deeper rims.

Got so used to deep rims now I don't notice them anymore. Nothing under 50mm deep on road.