Researching your retro ride and cycling history
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby bridgethegap71 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:26 am
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby hiflange » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:33 am
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby bridgethegap71 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:37 am
So we couldn't just start up a gallery on here with makers names and details? A bit like BMX Museum already has with their alphabetical list..https://bmxmuseum.com/hiflange wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:33 amThe West Australian Historical Cycle Club maintains a list of WA bike makers - there are over 100 listed there. A lot of blokes in sheds have their own lists but these rarely see the light of day. A publicly accessible Australia wide list would be great. It could easily run to 1000 makers though so setting it up would be a big job. Ongoing hosting of such a list would need consideration too.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby bridgethegap71 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:42 am
hiflange wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:33 amThe West Australian Historical Cycle Club maintains a list of WA bike makers - there are over 100 listed there. A lot of blokes in sheds have their own lists but these rarely see the light of day. A publicly accessible Australia wide list would be great. It could easily run to 1000 makers though so setting it up would be a big job. Ongoing hosting of such a list would need consideration too.
I've just checked out The West Australian Historical Cycle Club website, what a wonderful database for WA bikes, love the head tube badge gallery..must have taken a lot of time to compile..
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby P!N20 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:35 pm
bridgethegap71 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:37 amSo we couldn't just start up a gallery on here with makers names and details?
You sure can, go for it!
I asked a similar question here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=70837&p=1494596&hi ... n#p1494596
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby bridgethegap71 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:06 pm
I've love to but don't know how, I'm hopeless with forums etc but it could be something like BMX Museum A-Z of bike manufacturers..P!N20 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:35 pmbridgethegap71 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:37 amSo we couldn't just start up a gallery on here with makers names and details?
You sure can, go for it!
I asked a similar question here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=70837&p=1494596&hi ... n#p1494596
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby hiflange » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:41 pm
You could, but people have tried and failed before. Forum threads aren't spreadsheets or databases and simply don't lend themselves to lists.bridgethegap71 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:37 amSo we couldn't just start up a gallery on here with makers names and details? A bit like BMX Museum already has with their alphabetical list..https://bmxmuseum.com/
Wikipedia does lend itself to lists and already has a list of bike manufacturers from around the world. It's far from comprehensive but each listing links to a referenced article about the manufacturer. Another benefit of running the list on Wikipedia is that updating isn't dependent on a single person or entity. The downside of Wikipedia is the 'notability' requirement - with smaller or less well known brands there may not be enough verifiable information to create an article, a necessary step to making the list useful.
I've taken the bull by the horns and created a list of Australian bike brands and builders using the seven linked articles about Aussie bike brands from the worldwide list.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby Tmuir » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:20 pm
For example the earliest advert I can find for Kookaburra is 24 November 1932
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... %20bicycle
So it would be fair to say it started circa 1932
and the last mention I can find of it being 30 April 1938, so it would be fair to say last known advert April 1938.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... 20bicycle#
and al l sorts of other goodies, like the business was at 73 Adelaide St Fremantle in November 1934
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... %20bicycle
But in 1936 was in Market St Fremantle
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... %20bicycle
I can even find evidence that Kookaburra cycles ran a social riding club in 1932 and 1933 in Freamantle.
If I can turn that up on a small brand that only lasted 6 or so years in the 1930s in 15 minutes imagine what can be found on other brands.
Though it would be a hell of a job to capture that for all the brands and put it in a wiki.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby hiflange » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:42 pm
Not such a big job if a heap of people are doing it. The other hitch with Wikipedia is the learning needed to create a new article. I'm sure there are a few Wikipedians on BNA though. Perhaps they'd be happy to create the stubs using text and references generated by others?
We are blessed - Trove is such an amazing resource - a couple of Trove references and 50 words about Kookaburra is enough get started. The same would be true of so many Australian brands.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby bridgethegap71 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:13 am
I've just had a look on Trove and it is amazing, I could look on there for hours.. it's clear we have some very capable forum users on here.. so what are the first steps, how can we all help get this going?hiflange wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:42 pmNot such a big job if a heap of people are doing it. The other hitch with Wikipedia is the learning needed to create a new article. I'm sure there are a few Wikipedians on BNA though. Perhaps they'd be happy to create the stubs using text and references generated by others?
We are blessed - Trove is such an amazing resource - a couple of Trove references and 50 words about Kookaburra is enough get started. The same would be true of so many Australian brands.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby hiflange » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:43 pm
Wow, within a few days the list on Wikipedia has grown from 7 to 39! The vast majority are just links out to currently operating bike brands so there's not a lot of depth of information there, but nonetheless it's impressive.hiflange wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:41 pmI've taken the bull by the horns and created a list of Australian bike brands and builders using the seven linked articles about Aussie bike brands from the worldwide list.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby bridgethegap71 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:20 pm
Well done guys, where there's a will there's a way.. will be very useful.. : ) All the WA brands already done, wish I knew how to edit/update wiki..hiflange wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:43 pmWow, within a few days the list on Wikipedia has grown from 7 to 39! The vast majority are just links out to currently operating bike brands so there's not a lot of depth of information there, but nonetheless it's impressive.hiflange wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:41 pmI've taken the bull by the horns and created a list of Australian bike brands and builders using the seven linked articles about Aussie bike brands from the worldwide list.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby hiflange » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:38 pm
Lifelong learning! - Lots of good resources on Wikipedia, sign up (free) and dip your toe in the water with a few easy edits; tidying up some grammar or sentence structure somewhere or adding a reference/citation.
I'm trying to add Flash Cycles at the moment, one of WA's best known brands of yore, and I'm up against the notability problem already. It doesn't auger well for adding smaller brands
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby bridgethegap71 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:31 am
Ok, I'll have a go on wiki, but can't we just do Trove resources as mentioned previously or can't you find small brands on there either?hiflange wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:38 pmLifelong learning! - Lots of good resources on Wikipedia, sign up (free) and dip your toe in the water with a few easy edits; tidying up some grammar or sentence structure somewhere or adding a reference/citation.
I'm trying to add Flash Cycles at the moment, one of WA's best known brands of yore, and I'm up against the notability problem already. It doesn't auger well for adding smaller brands
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby hiflange » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:32 pm
There are no rules so anyone can do Trove resources, it's just that dumping them in a thread here doesn't really make them much more accessible than they are on Trove.bridgethegap71 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:31 amOk, I'll have a go on wiki, but can't we just do Trove resources as mentioned previously or can't you find small brands on there either?
Trove has great list and tag features, if you're looking for a brand check under Lists as well as under the more obvious Newspapers and Magazines category.
The brand name appreciation threads on BNA are good places to consolidate brand specific info and again they're a bit easier to find than sifting through a more generic thread like this one. If one doesn't exist just start it and see who shows up
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby find_bruce » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:58 pm
- Reliable sources: all information should be supported by a reference to a source that is independent of the subject, with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. The ironically named Truth newspaper probably isn't a reliable source for most things, even though it is available on Trove pre 1954. It doesn't need to be available online - eg books are usually reliable sources, even when they're not online. It's also ok to use archived websites as references, such as the Canberra bicycle museum
- Notability on Wikipedia refers to the subject of the article - it's not about how many bikes, years or the "importance" of those bikes, but rather what reliable sources say about the maker. Self promotion by pr hacks means that companies are carefully scrutinised for notability. Mere mention in a newspaper article is not going to cut it. Instead look for articles, including magazine articles dealing with the manufacturer & their history, people etc. A mention on page 356 of a book won't cut it, but a chapter certainly would. Websites such as the WA historical cycle club's page on Flash cycles can help establish notability, as can exhibitions put on with the support of organisations such as the state library etc. Notability can be controversial such as the absence of an article for Donna Strickland until after she won a nobel prize.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby Tmuir » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:35 pm
I'm instead putting the article together about the owner of Grady's Cycle agency that made the Kookaburra as Arthur Grady is notable by being the first person ever to circumnavigate Australia by motorcycle. At one point he had to even dismantle his motorcycle and carry it across a river in parts that was head deep and rebuild it on the other side.
There are many references to him on the net and in newspapers and as part of his article will include the bicycles. I've been mainly gathering references and only just started writing the article, but think it will be atleast another week before I'm read to submit it to wiki.
For Flash Cycles you could always tie it to the entry already in wiki for the Perth SpeedDome which is on Eddie Barron Drive, the found of Flash Cycles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_SpeedDome
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby Imwit » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 pm
https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20090 ... Place.html
And Torana68 had a really good one on his ozpushies yahoo group that he might be willing to share.
Looking through that CBM list just now I have already solved a couple of mysteries that had bugged me for ages
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby hiflange » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:46 pm
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby Imwit » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:20 pm
It definitely looked a work in progress. But it looks like there are some sections of it that were well researched and I’m not sure where else that information would be found.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby ldrcycles » Thu May 27, 2021 2:11 pm
hiflange wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:41 pm
I've taken the bull by the horns and created a list of Australian bike brands and builders using the seven linked articles about Aussie bike brands from the worldwide list.
I've been doing a bit of work on the wikipedia page for my hometown so I'll be able to chip in here. So far I've just removed Parlee (no idea how that got on there ) and added Healing, but plenty more to go when I get a chance.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby Dumpsterides » Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:34 pm
I have a 2 Star Malvern Star bike that I am trying to find out what model it is, and hopefully what colours it originally came with.
Serial number on top of LHS seat post reads:
6M22748
Thankyou if you can help.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby hiflange » Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:09 pm
6 = 1946, M = made in Melbourne
This (now very long) thread has some great info about MS serial numbers. You might find some pics of Malvern Stars with original paint in the thread too, not sure.
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Re: Researching your retro ride and cycling history
Postby Dumpsterides » Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:43 pm
Thanks for your quick response to my question.
Dumpsterides.
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