Pushing it too hard and mid ride recovery?

[TomH]

Evening all,

One of those “is this normal” type questions. I ride a bit - 200 - 300k/week. Mix of hills and flats - solo and group rides. I also run a bit - done a few marathons but now can’t do the distance due to longer term injuries. Late 40’s. Running can push HR to 160 - 165 - Garmin tells me threshold is around 165. Been cycling properly for a few years - can probably now get HR to slightly lower levels than running. Going pretty hard on a group ride I reckon I would average 145 for an hour and a half. Rarely get any muscle soreness - my heart appears to be the limiting factor. Way better at long distance or super short sprints.

It’s happened a few times and again today where I’ll push pretty hard up hill - probably like a sustained 5-10 minute effort in high zone 4 followed by a sprint to the end. This then triggers erratic heart beats which generally settle down then I’m good to go. Sometimes however it’s like I’ve gone too far into the red and am cooked for the rest of the ride. Like the slightest include and I’m back up to 160 - even got to 200 today. And not breathing hard or feeling lactate the legs - just high HR. Not experienced it ever running - only cycling.

Was fully checked out by a cardiologist when I was running a lot and all clear - have a 5 year check up in a few weeks so will ask all these questions then - but interested to know if this is what happens (ie if you push too hard then there’s no mid ride recovery)?

Cheers,

Tom

[am50em]

It sounds like HRM glitches when it spikes and you feel good.
How do you detect erratic heart beats? You just feel them?

[Daus]

You would be well advised to seek immediate medical attention with any cardiac related issues please do not ignore symptoms. Hope it goes well for you.

[TomH]

Thanks - I already know I have a flappy valve from a prior ECG and also skip beats after pushing when running. Strong family history of heart disease, so had way more tests than normal. More interested in whether you can toast yourself so badly in a big effort that you are done for the rest of the ride. It’s not a dodgy HRM - got HRM traces from my finger / phone thing as well. Skipping beats is not unusual from what I understand. I’ve also got a mate with arrhythmia - my experience seems different - but will certainly check with the specialist.

[trailgumby]

Thanks - I already know I have a flappy valve from a prior ECG and also skip beats after pushing when running. Strong family history of heart disease, so had way more tests than normal. More interested in whether you can toast yourself so badly in a big effort that you are done for the rest of the ride. It’s not a dodgy HRM - got HRM traces from my finger / phone thing as well. Skipping beats is not unusual from what I understand. I’ve also got a mate with arrhythmia - my experience seems different - but will certainly check with the specialist.

Yes, you can, if you go too deep into the red zone. How deep is too deep depends on conditioning.

HR values vary wildly between individuals. 140-145 is endurance pace for me. 160+ is normal when training VO2 Max and with caffeine I have maintained 171bpm+ for an hour in a race. My cousin used to maintain 200bpm on the climbs back of Taree at the age of 73.

However, if you're seeing arhythmia and things like 200bpm without a commensurate rate of perceived exertion, and other behaviours that are out of character or unexplained, I'd be concerned.

I think your doctor's appointment is timely and I'd recommend talking this through with him before doing any more sessions like that.

[Mr Purple]

I'm a doctor and have a similarly high maximum heart rate in my early 40's, but I think you want to get this one checked out.

Repeated threshold efforts can definitely get your heart rate a bit higher than normal later in the ride, however 200+ is not typical. I'll find on a typical ride a Mt Gravatt (2km/6%/5W/kg+) will get me to 164/min average but a Cootha at similar average power a bit further into the ride (2.2km/9%/5W) will get me to 188/min average.

Over 200 is a bit suspicious on your normal readings for short runs of ventricular ectopics/SVT however, I'd want to see that on a holter monitor. I have seen 205/min myself previously but actually suspect that was a chest strap issue; have since gone to an optical HRM and haven't seen anything like that.

[TomH]

Great - appreciate the replies.

I was riding with a doctor (but not a GP type doctor) at the back end when I hit 200. He checked my pulse a few mins after and said it was all over the shop and irregular. As we were a few k’s from home (and I’d had this before) then he checked in a few hour later, by which time I was out walking around the zoo with my 10 year old.

It’s good to know that this is not normal and will run through in a few weeks with the specialist. Sounds like a great excuse to also wheelsuck off the back for this weeks’ rides

[TomH]

Follow-up to this one - hit the threshold again running the city to surf a few weeks ago, despite having trained at a similar pace for the month before.

Cardiologist has a provisional diagnosis of exercise induced atrial fibrillation. Apparently affects long distance cyclists and runners. Symptoms match very closely - it all makes sense now why when pushed over the limit there's no recovery for me!

Got some follow up testing to be done - but definitely second the views on the forum that if something doesn't feel right heart wise then best to get it checked out.

[foo on patrol]

Well at least you know something is going on, just need the why part answered.

Foo

[trailgumby]

Follow-up to this one - hit the threshold again running the city to surf a few weeks ago, despite having trained at a similar pace for the month before.

Take it easy. At the moment you're in a high risk space until you learn more about your condition.

I've just reassessed my approach to training based on some material that I've recently come across that points to evidence that the highest performers are only training at high intensity for 20% of their training time or less, and that most train by spending most of their time at endurance pace of 55-75% of their FTP, with teh key being one weekly long ride with constant, consistent pedal pressure.

There's a bit more detail around how that should be executed and blended with a lifting program, but the gist is that their heart rate doesn't often get close to redlining. In fact it should be avoided. Following that approach has surprised me over the last 6 weeks with significant lifts in estimated VO2max, such that I've hit new PBs which have me wondering whether my new power meter is reading high. However, based on perceived effort for the speed I'm making It's clear I'm making some gains.

This is to provide some encouragement that there is still a pathway to maintaining solid fitness and performance without having to put yourself at risk while you learn how to manage this.