Autonomous cars? I think not
- Thoglette
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby Thoglette » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:17 pm
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby redsonic » Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:21 pm
Pedestrian dragged for 12m as car fails to recognise them trapped
The report itself made clear a human would have done better.
"After the AV contacted the pedestrian, an alert and attentive human driver would be aware that an impact of some sort had occurred and would not have continued driving without further investigating the situation," Exponent said.
Cyclist obscured by a truck turns across robotaxi's path
This one looks like a situation where many human drivers would also have hit the cyclist.
Of course, the crowd in Thoglette's article may not have cared about the cyclist and pedestrian and just enjoyed an opportunity to destroy a Jaguar.
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby zebee » Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:49 pm
The cyclist hidden by truck is trickier. It was a 4 way stop meaning the cyclist should have stopped when they got to the stop line and if they had done so they would not have been hidden. On the other hand, the driverless car should not have proceeded into a spot it couldn't see.
Those 4 way stops are common in the US in places we'd put roundabouts. There's one in Belmore that I cross 3 or 4 times a week and there's always someone who is confused by it. And not often but often enough to be careful about, someone who does what the cyclist did and just rams through behind another car.
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby Thoglette » Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:28 pm
5 Questions for Missy Cummings: The Former Fighter Pilot on why Autonomous Vehicles are so Risky
One page, five questions, worth reading.
Takeaways: assisted drivers speed more; “partial” autonomy is very dangerous, and
There’s a bit more from her in her role at the NHTSA out there: I’ve previously linked toIt's possible to do self-driving in narrow applications. ……. But the day when AI in cars can handle all conditions on the road, all of the time—it's not going to be in my lifetime.
WHAT SELF-DRIVING CARS TELL US ABOUT AI RISKS
But to remind
While a language model may give you nonsense, a self-driving car can kill you.
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby Cyclophiliac » Fri Mar 22, 2024 2:54 pm
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby redsonic » Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:37 pm
It would not be fun to be concertinaed between multiple vehicles because the autonomous car in front of me decided to slam on the brakes at nothing.It now appears that self-driving cars experience roughly twice the rate of rear-end collisions as do cars driven by people.
Another point to note is the rabid trolling a female expert gets online because she dares to voice a controversial (?) opinion. The unmediated internet is a cesspool.
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby find_bruce » Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:11 pm
It seems Sakshi Agrawal was not entirely honest about the auto pilot being on & has instead pleaded guilty to dangerous driving and failing to stop.antigee wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:37 pmreminded me of this quite close to where I live in Melbourne - no idea on outcome...
https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-hit ... autopilot/
"Ms Agrawal had previously told Melbourne Magistrates Court her Tesla Model 3 was being driven in ‘autopilot’ mode at the time of the crash.
In court yesterday, The Age reported, veteran tram driver Glenville Pereira said he was stopped and waiting for a passenger to board when a Tesla vehicle went “whooshing” past and struck the pedestrian."
In fact what happened was that a "vulnerable road user" was detected and the car also triggered alerts for a potential collision. Ms Agrawal was intent on getting past the tram & bugger the pedestrian, didn't brake, was traveling at 58 km/h when she hit the pedestrian & sped up to escape at 78 km/h in the seconds after the crash.
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby mikesbytes » Tue Apr 23, 2024 11:17 pm
Someone's life is less important than a few seconds of someone's timefind_bruce wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:11 pmIt seems Sakshi Agrawal was not entirely honest about the auto pilot being on & has instead pleaded guilty to dangerous driving and failing to stop.antigee wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:37 pmreminded me of this quite close to where I live in Melbourne - no idea on outcome...
https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-hit ... autopilot/
"Ms Agrawal had previously told Melbourne Magistrates Court her Tesla Model 3 was being driven in ‘autopilot’ mode at the time of the crash.
In court yesterday, The Age reported, veteran tram driver Glenville Pereira said he was stopped and waiting for a passenger to board when a Tesla vehicle went “whooshing” past and struck the pedestrian."
In fact what happened was that a "vulnerable road user" was detected and the car also triggered alerts for a potential collision. Ms Agrawal was intent on getting past the tram & bugger the pedestrian, didn't brake, was traveling at 58 km/h when she hit the pedestrian & sped up to escape at 78 km/h in the seconds after the crash.
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby MichaelB » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:59 am
Aside from the inexcusability of the actions from the driver, the fact thatfind_bruce wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:11 pmIt seems Sakshi Agrawal was not entirely honest about the auto pilot being on & has instead pleaded guilty to dangerous driving and failing to stop.antigee wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:37 pmreminded me of this quite close to where I live in Melbourne - no idea on outcome...
https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-hit ... autopilot/
"Ms Agrawal had previously told Melbourne Magistrates Court her Tesla Model 3 was being driven in ‘autopilot’ mode at the time of the crash.
In court yesterday, The Age reported, veteran tram driver Glenville Pereira said he was stopped and waiting for a passenger to board when a Tesla vehicle went “whooshing” past and struck the pedestrian."
In fact what happened was that a "vulnerable road user" was detected and the car also triggered alerts for a potential collision. Ms Agrawal was intent on getting past the tram & bugger the pedestrian, didn't brake, was traveling at 58 km/h when she hit the pedestrian & sped up to escape at 78 km/h in the seconds after the crash.
Just a lovely human being
despite knowing (or had to have known along with the lawyer) that he 'reasoning' could never stand up in court, I will remain hopeful that she will at least receive the maximum sentence.Agrawal spent two years fighting charges of dangerous driving causing serious injury and failure to stop, but changed her plea to guilty on the eve of a County Court trial that was due to begin last week.
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby find_bruce » Wed Apr 24, 2024 2:12 pm
Nothing however is going to fix the injuries suffered by nurse Nicole Lagos
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby warthog1 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 6:12 pm
True.find_bruce wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2024 2:12 pm"The dangerous driving charge carries a maximum jail term of five years, while the failure to stop offence could see her jailed for up to 10 years." She won't get the maximum, but somewhat ironically the tesla warning is likely to result in a significant sentence.
Nothing however is going to fix the injuries suffered by nurse Nicole Lagos
In an emotional victim impact statement, Ms Lagos described the confusion when she woke in hospital and was unable to remember anything from the crash.
She said the incident had left her with permanent disabilities, including brain damage.
Ms Lagos, who was 26 when the crash occurred, feared it would leave her unable to find a life partner and start a family.
"Life without dreams is pretty grim. There's nothing to work towards," she said.
"Every time I pass a car or see a tram, it's a reminder that this has happened to me."
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby antigee » Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:43 pm
Not often that I get angered by a defendant's lawyers statements...just doing their job...warthog1 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2024 6:12 pmTrue.find_bruce wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2024 2:12 pm"The dangerous driving charge carries a maximum jail term of five years, while the failure to stop offence could see her jailed for up to 10 years." She won't get the maximum, but somewhat ironically the tesla warning is likely to result in a significant sentence.
Nothing however is going to fix the injuries suffered by nurse Nicole Lagos
In an emotional victim impact statement, Ms Lagos described the confusion when she woke in hospital and was unable to remember anything from the crash.
She said the incident had left her with permanent disabilities, including brain damage.
Ms Lagos, who was 26 when the crash occurred, feared it would leave her unable to find a life partner and start a family.
"Life without dreams is pretty grim. There's nothing to work towards," she said.
"Every time I pass a car or see a tram, it's a reminder that this has happened to me."
"Defence barrister Nick Papas, KC, said Agrawal was remorseful and had since acknowledged the Tesla was not on autopilot. He said his client made a bad decision to try to beat a tram, causing Lagos and her family extraordinary trauma."
(from coverage in TheAge)
try to beat a tram? pushing the focus on an object when the defendant took a risk that endangered human life
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby find_bruce » Fri May 10, 2024 3:07 pm
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby antigee » Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:12 pm
"A Tesla driver in California learned the hard way last week not to put too much faith in the company’s Autopilot system after the tech drove their car directly on to a train track, mistaking it for the road....."
https://gizmodo.com.au/2024/07/tesla-au ... ly-notice/ (advert heavy link)
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby MichaelB » Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:12 am
hahahahahahahaantigee wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:12 pm"Tesla Autopilot Mistakes Train Tracks For Road, Driver Doesn’t Immediately Notice"
"A Tesla driver in California learned the hard way last week not to put too much faith in the company’s Autopilot system after the tech drove their car directly on to a train track, mistaking it for the road....."
https://gizmodo.com.au/2024/07/tesla-au ... ly-notice/ (advert heavy link)
Wonder what the Tesla defence to that is ....
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby find_bruce » Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:53 pm
It's like Tesla is trying to learn driver behaviour. Next thing you know it will drive down the steps of a train stationMichaelB wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:12 amhahahahahahahaantigee wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:12 pm"Tesla Autopilot Mistakes Train Tracks For Road, Driver Doesn’t Immediately Notice"
"A Tesla driver in California learned the hard way last week not to put too much faith in the company’s Autopilot system after the tech drove their car directly on to a train track, mistaking it for the road....."
https://gizmodo.com.au/2024/07/tesla-au ... ly-notice/ (advert heavy link)
Wonder what the Tesla defence to that is ....
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby MichaelB » Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:20 am
But that's customer service and convenience.find_bruce wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:53 pmIt's like Tesla is trying to learn driver behaviour. Next thing you know it will drive down the steps of a train stationMichaelB wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:12 amhahahahahahahaantigee wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:12 pm"Tesla Autopilot Mistakes Train Tracks For Road, Driver Doesn’t Immediately Notice"
"A Tesla driver in California learned the hard way last week not to put too much faith in the company’s Autopilot system after the tech drove their car directly on to a train track, mistaking it for the road....."
https://gizmodo.com.au/2024/07/tesla-au ... ly-notice/ (advert heavy link)
Wonder what the Tesla defence to that is ....
Too lazy to steer and concentrate, so how could they navigate stairs on their own ?
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Re: Autonomous cars? I think not
Postby Thoglette » Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:14 pm
Startups Say India Is Ideal for Testing Self-Driving Cars:
Unruly traffic forces innovative approaches to autonomy
IEEE Spectrum 24 Apr 2024
Having been in Mumbai's traffic I understand what he's saying....despite all that training, these companies are still bedeviled by the “long tail problem”—the idea that no matter how many scenarios you train on, you will always encounter rare but unique “corner cases” that will flummox your vehicle. Here’s where technology developed in India has a major advantage, says Sharma.“The kind of traffic and environment we’re negotiating, the entire navigation course can be labeled as a corner case,”
The article outlines a few companies and the rather different approaches they are taking. I'm not sure how it will turn out but (as I've said over and over) the current conventional approach has failed and is doomed to be at least as bad as (sober) drivers and a hell of a lot more expensive.
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
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