Smart trainers and software

[warthog1]

The cheapest route is appletv afaik.
Run zwift and fulgaz on it and the resolution is fine imo.

[Arbuckle23]

My job is managing end user hardware. A very big fleet. We do performance testing on all of them. A desktop smashes A laptop unless you are spending 3 times as much. Monitors are cheap. Dell have an outlet site. Buy a optiplex micro (if space is an issue) with a standard desktop processor for about $1k. Some even come with wifi. If you have any questions, ask here or send me a message

I build my own desktops. Got enough here at the moment to build a spare, just need a hard drive (and an OS )
There is a a power supply, AOI 2080ti GPU and a motherboard with an old but good 4790k CPU (and ram) in two separate cases that just need combining sitting around
Just a pain to run some cable or improve wifi out in the shed

[g-boaf]

Beware the (E) grade 1.0-5.0w/kg events on Zwift.

After almost a lap at between 3.5-5.5w/kg I ended up getting dropped at the 30km mark when the top 8 in front of me did a 2 minute push at 7.5w/kg+.

Ended up doing another 32km with at around 3.8w/kg with two others until they had enough and that was it. Then I did the rest myself.

My 5 minute power just isn't high enough, needs to be in the region 350-380w and I need my maximum power to be up around 900w instead of 615w where it is now.

[Arbuckle23]

Decision made, Zwift gone, for now.
Will continue on with Rouvy for a while and see if is better in the long term for me.

[Mr Purple]

Beware the (E) grade 1.0-5.0w/kg events on Zwift.

After almost a lap at between 3.5-5.5w/kg I ended up getting dropped at the 30km mark when the top 8 in front of me did a 2 minute push at 7.5w/kg+.

That seems a little unlikely. I've done 7.9W/kg for two minutes but not as part of a race - more a 'take it easy, hard push, recover' and I'm pretty sure that was 100% or thereabouts on the Coggan chart. For multiple people to do 7.5W/kg+ for two minutes as part of a Zwift event after 30km suggests some 'interesting' weights being listed.

Am testing a couple of my rides again for Fulgaz this week - should be listed soon. Did my Cleveland-Wellington Point ride this morning (25km/181m) and struggled to keep up with myself. It wasn't until I reached the return leg that I worked out that was because of the wind direction - had a tailwind pretty much all the way out.

Testing Brookfield Three Fingers tomorrow. The topography on that one looks far more brutal than it feels in real life!

[g-boaf]

I did some mathematics and it was 63kg, which isn't impossible but certainly lighter.

One of the people in question was 63yo. And smashing everyone. But the others were equally fast - didn't get to do my mathematics for all of them... That process is:

1. Fan view rider
2. Take Screenshot
3. Open screenshot
4. Check power and watts/kg indicated on screeenshot and do power/wkg to find weight
5. Repeat for all of the riders

Gah...

Come on Zwift, show rider weights to everyone and rider heights as well so we can see who is 130cm tall.

[Mr Purple]

Yep. Agreed.

The giveaway is usually their sprint. If someone is well under 65kg but has a sprint of significantly over 1000W (after 40km+ at FTP) then that person is lying about their weight. I've seen '55kg' riders with 1500W sprints. That's just rubbish.

One thing that defines us lightweight W/kg type people is we generally have weaksauce 15 second efforts. There's got to be some give somewhere, not everything is simultaneously biologically possible!

Zwift works on the same rules as Strava. The cheats pay the same subscription fees as everyone else and therefore they have no incentive to regulate cheating.

[g-boaf]

I used to have a 1200w peak sprint power and to get that I had to train very, very hard. It wasn't just easy. And I wasn't doing 1000w for 15 seconds, it was much less than that.

I'd be significantly exhausted after these efforts. And that was when I was a lot younger than I am now. I know people with 1500w sprints IRL and they are not 55kg.


I don't care about some fancy automatic detection system, I just want the rider weight and height shown for all to see. The brazen cheaters will still cheat but at least it's easy to spot them without doing mathematics on the go. It would also deter some people.

Maybe even put the weight and height beside the rider name in the rider list.

Rider 1 | 35kg |130cm [national-flag]

[Arbuckle23]

Did the exit survey with Zwift.
One question was "do I want more gamification"? Um no! Just don't charge me so much

[Mr Purple]

Maybe even put the weight and height beside the rider name in the rider list.

Rider 1 | 35kg |130cm [national-flag]

They'd probably actually argue this would result in 'fat shaming'. A surprising number of people are extremely offended at any reference to their weight - I think as cyclists we are acutely aware if we weigh too much because of the laws of physics!

I must admit I think I've spent too much time on Bikecalculator. I can basically do the sums in my head now, and it's extremely obvious if something's a little 'off'. Also probably stems from being so light myself - if someone is going uphill faster with less overall power than I am they're almost always cheating.

[g-boaf]

Maybe even put the weight and height beside the rider name in the rider list.

Rider 1 | 35kg |130cm [national-flag]

They'd probably actually argue this would result in 'fat shaming'. A surprising number of people are extremely offended at any reference to their weight - I think as cyclists we are acutely aware if we weigh too much because of the laws of physics!

I must admit I think I've spent too much time on Bikecalculator. I can basically do the sums in my head now, and it's extremely obvious if something's a little 'off'. Also probably stems from being so light myself - if someone is going uphill faster with less overall power than I am they're almost always cheating.

Body image was one of the reasons put for hiding those. But it's now used by cheaters. Yes I understand body image issues but something has to happen to make things more honest until some automated checks are put in place.

Like you if someone is zooming past me effortlessly uphill I'm going to notice it as well.

[Mr Purple]

Body image was one of the reasons put for hiding those. But it's now used by cheaters. Yes I understand body image issues but something has to happen to make things more honest until some automated checks are put in place.

I've seen some really weird articles on cycling being intolerant of overweight riders recently. As in people seem surprised that a sport that involves the amount of power you put out balanced against how much you weigh focuses so much on rider weight.

By all means we should recognise that there are many riders who might not be exactly 'ideal weight' who are very fast, particularly on the flat bits. But to say the whole sport is 'body shaming' is another thing entirely. I actually feel it's unfair that riders online can put pretty much whatever they want as their weight, but us lighter guys can't exactly exaggerate our power. Well we can, as some have proved, but it's a lot more technically difficult to do so!

Likewise I've recently seen some gripes on the BVRT Facebook group about how the 160km 95% dirt riding trail isn't universally 'handicap accessible'. Well, no.

It's a strange move in society that it doesn't seem to want to recognise that some physical factors might mean you can do things better than other people. I haven't been 'thin shamed' yet but am pretty sure it's coming. I blame e-bikes (not really).

[g-boaf]

The fact someone is on the bike is enough - they are getting moving and that's positive.


But certainly I can see that it could be a problem, especially in a sport where you are essentially not wearing a whole lot and what we are wearing doesn't hide much. So of course people want to be like those pro riders, meaning lean, strong, etc...

I can definitely see that some people can get into image issues where they get obsessed with keeping on lightest weight. Even some pro cyclists got into that dark place.

But weights on Zwift aren't going to help with all of that, that's something else outside of Zwift.

[Arbuckle23]

I have decided to do some more experimentation and doing a trial of Fulgaz again. Just to compare to Rouvy.
One little flaw I have picked up on Rouvy is that not all rides are enabled for download. And given my poor wifi in the shed at the moment, that is important.
Last time I used Fulgaz it was on the iPad, will see how PC use goes. Downloaded a couple of routes for sample.

[Mr Purple]

I'm still very much enjoying Fulgaz and recommend it to everyone. It does have its limitations, occasionally an update goes a little bit wrong and it's not a perfect, polished product but mind you neither is Zwift. They do seem to have a much better interaction with their community as well.

I think it suits a certain type of rider as there is very little social aspect, but that's exactly how I ride! The endless natter and in-jokes in group rides in Zwift drove me mad. Let alone the jokers riding around for hundreds of kilometres in a group ride on 'Tempus Fugit' at 40km/hr+ with 150W somehow thinking it is equivalent to riding the same distance outdoors.

There's now two of my rides on Fulgaz - 'Mount Gravatt' and 'Cootha Back'. Tested a couple more this week so they should be up shortly - a Cleveland-Wellington Point Loop (25km/162m) and Brookfield Three Fingers (40km/512m).

I've enjoyed the whole filming and testing process so will probably buy a decent GoPro at some stage; there's some nice gravel rides I need to put up there. The interesting thing is how riding it indoors compares to your outdoor pace. The Cleveland loop above for some reason I filmed at a particularly brutal pace - I literally couldn't keep up with myself on the outward bound leg but managed it on the way back. The answer was, of course, that there was a tailwind out.

Brookfield Three Fingers ends up being a really nasty ride on an indoor trainer - good luck with that one! I'd never realised until now just how many elevation changes there are. You're always hunting the right gear, and trying to keep up the pace is very difficult. Doesn't help there are seven near misses with bad drivers during my filming either, I'm a bit worried I only noticed four on the day. At least now it's preserved for all perpetuity.

[Arbuckle23]

I think it suits a certain type of rider as there is very little social aspect, but that's exactly how I ride!

I did some group rides on Zwift during Covid and the odd one after.
Mostly now it is own my own spur of the moment when the weather is crap or I have a time limit and I can just stop when time is up.
My local morning loop is on Fulgaz as Mike sponsors my clubs road series and it one of the race routes we use. Its fairly accurate, although flat so no real grades to get the proper power feeling.

Off to ride Beach Road now to compare as I road it in Rouvy yesterday And know it it real life
The Rouvy one yesterday had some incorrect slope data on it. Said I was riding downhill after leaving Black Rock, but was on the slight uphill bit before you drop down to Ricketts Point. So not impressed with that.

[Mr Purple]

Off to ride Beach Road now to compare as I road it in Rouvy yesterday And know it it real life
The Rouvy one yesterday had some incorrect slope data on it. Said I was riding downhill after leaving Black Rock, but was on the slight uphill bit before you drop down to Ricketts Point. So not impressed with that.

The accuracy of the terrain data is what makes or breaks these rides. Currently when you upload rides to Fulgaz you have to include the bike computer files which are then matched up to the visuals. Occasionally this is a little 'off', particularly on the older rides. You'll know because you're going a lot faster/slower than the original ride where you don't expect it.

Once you get the hang of the system you can see the limitations and errors easily enough. Some of the older rides are filmed on motorbike (Noosa Tri is the worst), and some of the newer ones on 1000W+ e-bikes with riders who can't resist the throttle. Some of the hillclimbs are really slow and you'll be stuck on the 2x speed limiter the whole time (extra annoying when that's the weekly challenge). Even more annoying when a mountainbiker passes you halfway up no matter how hard you pedal.

So it's not perfect but it is getting better. I particularly like how because of the 'user contribution' aspect new rides are uploaded faster than anyone can ride them. It's not like Zwift when you wait sometimes years for an 'exciting new loop' that turns out to be dead flat and exactly the same as the old loops. Or even worse, just a variant on an old loop.

[g-boaf]

Off to ride Beach Road now to compare as I road it in Rouvy yesterday And know it it real life
The Rouvy one yesterday had some incorrect slope data on it. Said I was riding downhill after leaving Black Rock, but was on the slight uphill bit before you drop down to Ricketts Point. So not impressed with that.

The accuracy of the terrain data is what makes or breaks these rides. Currently when you upload rides to Fulgaz you have to include the bike computer files which are then matched up to the visuals. Occasionally this is a little 'off', particularly on the older rides. You'll know because you're going a lot faster/slower than the original ride where you don't expect it.

Once you get the hang of the system you can see the limitations and errors easily enough. Some of the older rides are filmed on motorbike (Noosa Tri is the worst), and some of the newer ones on 1000W+ e-bikes with riders who can't resist the throttle. Some of the hillclimbs are really slow and you'll be stuck on the 2x speed limiter the whole time (extra annoying when that's the weekly challenge). Even more annoying when a mountainbiker passes you halfway up no matter how hard you pedal.

So it's not perfect but it is getting better. I particularly like how because of the 'user contribution' aspect new rides are uploaded faster than anyone can ride them. It's not like Zwift when you wait sometimes years for an 'exciting new loop' that turns out to be dead flat and exactly the same as the old loops. Or even worse, just a variant on an old loop.

Tim to get Zwift users to complain about all those hills. that’s what they typically do. The moment you mention hills a whole gang of them will start whining and complaining loudly!

The only kind of hills they want are small rolling hills that the majority “sprinter” type riders can punch over with their momentum and drop lighter riders on the downhill parts.

[Arbuckle23]

I don't mind Zwift, it is easy to just hop on and ride when needed.
It is the price jack that has made me grumpy with it.
Rouvy is a bit more expensive than I thought as all prices listed are in other currencies.
Fulgaz is what Zwift used to be month to month, with a decent discount for yearly.
Will continue to trial both as the weather turns colder and see what works best for me.

[warthog1]

I don't mind Zwift, it is easy to just hop on and ride when needed.
It is the price jack that has made me grumpy with it.
Rouvy is a bit more expensive than I thought as all prices listed are in other currencies.
Fulgaz is what Zwift used to be month to month, with a decent discount for yearly.
Will continue to trial both as the weather turns colder and see what works best for me.

That sums me up too. The price rise has pissed me off.
I haven't tried Rouvy. Tried a trial of Fulgaz. Bad timing though. The trial is finished and I only rode it on one afternoon. Will need to pay for a month and see if it works using the phone as a wifi hotspot back at work next week.
I am on holidays and just got a new roadie
Riding that outside is far more preferable to sitting in front of a fan and a tv pretending I am riding.

[Arbuckle23]

The Rouvy one yesterday had some incorrect slope data on it. Said I was riding downhill after leaving Black Rock, but was on the slight uphill bit before you drop down to Ricketts Point. So not impressed with that.

Rode the same route in Fulgaz as a test. It is the same recording! Traffic encountered was exactly the same.
Data was better, the rise was a rise.

[Mr Purple]

Rode the same route in Fulgaz as a test. It is the same recording! Traffic encountered was exactly the same.
Data was better, the rise was a rise.

Some of the older films are shared between Fulgaz, Rouvy and occasionally BKool. You can definitely see the differing realism standards as the KOMs on the older ones are always held by someone doing ridiculous speeds with very little power. They really need to refilm some of them - I might offer to update the Brisbane ones. The River Loop and Nebo are interesting in a historical perspective!

I've been enjoying seeing people ride my Mt Gravatt which only went up last week. This comment got me:

I knew Michael had scampered up this little climb at warp speed so I didn’t bother trying to get close to his time (would have failed anyway).

I have literally no idea who this guy is, but it seems I have a reputation. Another overseas lady was very complimentary of the scenery and asking her followers what sort of animal we were to look out for!



I think I'll invest in a GoPro and film some more. It's nice to contribute.

[Arbuckle23]

Will need to pay for a month and see if it works using the phone as a wifi hotspot back at work next week.

Uses more data than Zwift. HD videos are hungry things.

[Arbuckle23]

Some of the older films are shared between Fulgaz, Rouvy and occasionally BKool. You can definitely see the differing realism standards as the KOMs on the older ones are always held by someone doing ridiculous speeds with very little power. They really need to refilm some of them - I might offer to update the Brisbane ones. The River Loop and Nebo are interesting in a historical perspective!

I've been enjoying seeing people ride my Mt Gravatt which only went up last week. This comment got me:

The Beach Rode ride must have been filmed by some really slow person, I was well up for the entire ride
I will have to do your rides to see how slow I am.

[warthog1]

Will need to pay for a month and see if it works using the phone as a wifi hotspot back at work next week.

Uses more data than Zwift. HD videos are hungry things.

It will only be 1080p on my appletv box. Does that mean less data hungry?